Diabetic Dog

[Missme]

I did put this in the general topic but then noticed the health section, sorry for the double posting I am not sure how to move a post?

We have recently adopted a 7 year old Diabetic dog.

Her levels are all over the place and she is going for fortnightly curve tests.

She was underweight when we got her weighing in at around 12.8kg, the vets advised us to feed her Hills i/d dry food, which she won’t eat due to sore gums. ( we intend to get her a dental but have to wait until she has put on weight and her diabetes is managed)

So we were told to feed her chicken and rice with a few veggies mixed in, her weight dropped 1.5kg in a week!!

So we are now on the i/d tins, she has four a day! Which is getting quiet costly! I have asked the vet a few time’s now what other food can we feed her? The response is low fat food, Hills Science Diet is the best complete and balanced food, if you go to another brand you are going second grade.

I am extremely worried about feeding her the wrong tinned foods and very frustrated with the vet who answer’s me with she only “knows” hills food.

Is it wrong of me to expect the vet we are paying to do a

little research into other food to offer us advice on food for Matilda?

am I expecting to much from the vet?

Does anyone know of any other brands of “special food” that may be cheaper but is low fat or for diabetic dogs they may be cheaper?

Also the first vet we took her to (same clinic) told us the CANINSULIN she is on, is to be only kept for one month maximum, it is even on the sticker on the bottle. When I went in today the other vet told me that is "Recommended " but you can keep using it for longer. What does everyone else do with Caninsulin I would be very interested to know!!!

[baifra]

Hi Missme,

I had a diabetic dog for 3 years before she sadly passed away a year ago.

This is a very stressful time for you I know and what you need is reassurance and a Vet that not only appreciates how scary it is for owners but also one that is willing to answer your questions and go through the whole process with you step by step.

When my girl, Sammy was first diagnosed at 8 years old my vet was fantastic. She went to the vets for an overnight stay to monitor her Blood Sugar Levels (BSL). The vet asked that I bring in her food with a chart of what time and how much she got. She was not on any expensive food or 'fancy' diet. I understand that the Hill's food is very expensive on top of insulin, vet trips and all the rest that comes with the management of diabetes!!!

I found that routine (strict) was what worked best for my girl, that meant eating at the same time, the same food (with the odd treat or carrot stick). Quality food definately is better but not everyone can afford it.

You can change her diet but you will need to monitor her BSL's closely for a couple of days while she adjusts.

Do you monitor your dogs BSL at home with a glucometer or urine testing?

My girl was on caninsulin for a while before switching to a different brand and in both cases the used by date was one month after opening. ( I am a nurse and it is the same with human insulin) Luckily for us Sammy was a big girl and required more than one ampule per month so we didn't need to worry about that so much.

I have heaps of information and tips to help you manage your girl's diabetes. Just PM me and I'd be more than happy to help you out.

It all feels so overwhelming now but believe me, in a couple of months you will be fine!!

Take care and congratulations on adopting such a lucky and special dog.

[Missme]

Hi Baifra,

Thanks for your reply!

We are considering changing vet clinic's. We have changed the vet from the first one we saw with her as she just rushed the whole consult. And saw another at the smaller clinic and she was great the first time around! We are having to take her in fortnightly for curve tests so we have to go to their "bigger" clinic and it is just so rushed there, kind of like a bulk billing doctor in and out as quick as they can! Don't get me wrong they are nice enough and good BUT not overly supportive or imformative.

The urine testing was mentioned but they said we can only buy them if they think it is needed? And it is best just to bring her in for fortnightly curve tests!? I have heard of the glucometer but have no idea were to buy one from?? and the vets have never mentioned it? I think it would be important to test her BSL at home and do the chart as one day every two weeks isn't the best readings? Or would it be sufficent?

I didn't know there was a different brand to Caninsulin?

[Poo-Fong]

Hi there,

Probably not much help to you but we own boarding kennels, and currently have two diabetic dogs on our books (it was three up until a couple of months ago but sadly our oldest diabetic customer recently crossed the Bridge).

Dog 1 (who is no longer with us RIP Charlie) did not bring his own diet in with him when he boarded - we just fed him a low-fat biscuit (was usually Advance Weight Control which is our low-fat biccie of choice but did vary very occasionally) and a measured portion of Tucker Time dog roll 12 hourly. This boy was a regular (at least once every 6 - 8 weeks for 2 1/2 years) and we never had any issues with his levels/appetite/general health whilst staying with us - just kept his diet the same each day and at the same time. We miss him, he was gorgeous

Dog 2 is a very recently diagnosed diabetic, when she boarded with us for the first time recently she was only 8 weeks post-diagnosis, and they had just managed to get her levels sorted out. She came in on one of the Eukanuba Vet Response Diet biscuits and a measured portion of Tucker Time dog roll 12 hourly. Not sure how much the biccies were but Tucker Time is about $12 retail (i think? haven't bought it retail for a long time). She had a fantastic appetite and was doing really well on that diet.

Dog 3 is the bane of our existence - he is a gorgeous dog but we have had more issues with him & his appetite/levels than any other dog - we do take comfort in the fact that it's not just us though, he does the same at home! He is extremely fussy, and his owner has not helped the matter by catering to his whims - although it is a hard call when you are dealing with a dog who needs to eat... you can't really 'wait him out' for too long!

He is also a regular visitor, and up until fairly recently was on Hills W/D diet (dry & cans). This has just changed to Eukanuba Wholesome Naturals Turkey & Barley biscuits (as he was not eating the dry W/D at home) and wet W/D cans - however, he flatly refused to eat the W/D cans during his most recent visit last week (and I can't say I blame him - it is vile stuff! Not remotely appetising - doesn't smell, look or feel like meat) So we tried with no W/D & just biccies - wouldn't eat that either After consultation with his vet and trial & error (and eating something one meal but refusing it the next two ) we managed to get him to eat his biccies as long as they had steamed diced chicken tenderloins mixed through it

Anyway, I digress a little but I guess what I am trying to say is - there is no way that Hills is the only food that diabetic dogs can eat, and if your vet is telling you that you need a second opinion. Not sure what state you are in, but if you can get hold of Tucker Time that would be something I would be looking at if I was you... it is usually sold in vet clinics and pet shops/stock feeders. They do make a calorie controlled variety (although the diabetics we have board with us are all on normal varieties - but they are not eating it as a sole food either) and it would have to be way cheaper than buying Hills cans from your vet.

Here is a link to their website, they do have a store locator thingy Might be worth looking into?

Also, as Baifra said, the most important thing is keeping that strict routine up - same food at the same time with an occasional treat is the key I think. FWIW, I think you should seek an opinion from a different vet - maybe one who doesn't necessarily push what he sells/ doesn't stock Hills?

Hope that has helped a little, and not confused you more ;) .... best of luck with Matilda and good on you for giving a 'special needs' dog a second chance!

[lovemypooch]

Hi Missme,

Our dog was diagnosed with diabetes early last year but sadly passed away this year (rip ralphy xo)

When ralphy was diagnosed he had a strict diet of Hills w/d. Ralphy had always been a VERY fussy eater and didnt adapt well to his new diet. On the w/d he lost too much weight so the vet swapped him to i/d which he didnt like either. His blood sugar levels were all over the place at first and it didnt help giving him food he would eat, we had to change his insulin dose acording to how much he weighed & what he ate etc etc.

anyway.. we eventually had to change vets due to our current one closing down. We spoke to our new vet about ralphy's eating habits and how he wasnt adapting very well to his new diet, our vet said it is ok to give him a different brand of food and that we can change his insulin dose to suit. We ended feeding ralphy Advance Weight Control both wet & dry combo, he loved it and his blood suger levels remained at a good steady level. We also were able to feed ralphy treats during the day (dog bikkie after insulin shot).

We only had Caninsulin, ralphy was on 44 units twice daily. we would go through roughly 1 vile per week. I also called around to different vets in the area to find out who was cheaper as our current vet was charging $74 a vile, i found a vet who sold it for $49

where abouts are you located? i can rec a good vet in brisbane..

Edited May 23, 2009 by lovemypooch

[Missme]

Hi Poindexter,

thanks for your post! Any information is appreciated

Sorry to hear about Charlie

I have had a look at the tucker time website and cannot find the fat level in their food? Would you know? I spoke to the vet yesterday, to find out what she means by "low fat" and she said anything 5% or under is what Matilda can have and she needs to have twice the reccomened amount!

Hi there,

Probably not much help to you but we own boarding kennels, and currently have two diabetic dogs on our books (it was three up until a couple of months ago but sadly our oldest diabetic customer recently crossed the Bridge).

Dog 1 (who is no longer with us RIP Charlie) did not bring his own diet in with him when he boarded - we just fed him a low-fat biscuit (was usually Advance Weight Control which is our low-fat biccie of choice but did vary very occasionally) and a measured portion of Tucker Time dog roll 12 hourly. This boy was a regular (at least once every 6 - 8 weeks for 2 1/2 years) and we never had any issues with his levels/appetite/general health whilst staying with us - just kept his diet the same each day and at the same time. We miss him, he was gorgeous

Dog 2 is a very recently diagnosed diabetic, when she boarded with us for the first time recently she was only 8 weeks post-diagnosis, and they had just managed to get her levels sorted out. She came in on one of the Eukanuba Vet Response Diet biscuits and a measured portion of Tucker Time dog roll 12 hourly. Not sure how much the biccies were but Tucker Time is about $12 retail (i think? haven't bought it retail for a long time). She had a fantastic appetite and was doing really well on that diet.

Dog 3 is the bane of our existence - he is a gorgeous dog but we have had more issues with him & his appetite/levels than any other dog - we do take comfort in the fact that it's not just us though, he does the same at home! He is extremely fussy, and his owner has not helped the matter by catering to his whims - although it is a hard call when you are dealing with a dog who needs to eat... you can't really 'wait him out' for too long!

He is also a regular visitor, and up until fairly recently was on Hills W/D diet (dry & cans). This has just changed to Eukanuba Wholesome Naturals Turkey & Barley biscuits (as he was not eating the dry W/D at home) and wet W/D cans - however, he flatly refused to eat the W/D cans during his most recent visit last week (and I can't say I blame him - it is vile stuff! Not remotely appetising - doesn't smell, look or feel like meat) So we tried with no W/D & just biccies - wouldn't eat that either After consultation with his vet and trial & error (and eating something one meal but refusing it the next two ) we managed to get him to eat his biccies as long as they had steamed diced chicken tenderloins mixed through it

Anyway, I digress a little but I guess what I am trying to say is - there is no way that Hills is the only food that diabetic dogs can eat, and if your vet is telling you that you need a second opinion. Not sure what state you are in, but if you can get hold of Tucker Time that would be something I would be looking at if I was you... it is usually sold in vet clinics and pet shops/stock feeders. They do make a calorie controlled variety (although the diabetics we have board with us are all on normal varieties - but they are not eating it as a sole food either) and it would have to be way cheaper than buying Hills cans from your vet.

Here is a link to their website, they do have a store locator thingy Might be worth looking into?

Also, as Baifra said, the most important thing is keeping that strict routine up - same food at the same time with an occasional treat is the key I think. FWIW, I think you should seek an opinion from a different vet - maybe one who doesn't necessarily push what he sells/ doesn't stock Hills?

Hope that has helped a little, and not confused you more .... best of luck with Matilda and good on you for giving a 'special needs' dog a second chance!

[Missme]

Hi Lovemypooch!

I am very sorry to hear about Ralphy!

Matilda is a bit of a fuss pot too! She has been going off the hills i/d can, for the last few days I have been hand feeding it to her and today she just flatly refuses!

As far as I am aware she was diagnosed early this year and that is why she was surrendered, we got her three months later! I don't think her levels etc have been managed! She was eating dry food in the pound but by the looks of her weight loss that and her insulin was not the right amounts etc. She will not eat dry food here!

I have been looking into the Advance Weight Control food, and it seems to be our best option so far!

Just curious did you monitor Ralphys levels at home with a glucose meter or urine testing?

We are in Central West NSW.......

Thanks for your post!

[lovemypooch]

Hi Lovemypooch!

I am very sorry to hear about Ralphy!

Matilda is a bit of a fuss pot too! She has been going off the hills i/d can, for the last few days I have been hand feeding it to her and today she just flatly refuses!

As far as I am aware she was diagnosed early this year and that is why she was surrendered, we got her three months later! I don't think her levels etc have been managed! She was eating dry food in the pound but by the looks of her weight loss that and her insulin was not the right amounts etc. She will not eat dry food here!

I have been looking into the Advance Weight Control food, and it seems to be our best option so far!

Just curious did you monitor Ralphys levels at home with a glucose meter or urine testing?

We are in Central West NSW.......

Thanks for your post!

Hi Missme,

Matilda seems to have the same fussy habits like ralphy, we too had to hand feed him at one stage and boy was it a struggle...

We did monitor ralphys levels with the urine sticks at one point - mainly looking for ketones but ralphy passed alot of glucose through his unrine so the sticks were useless to us. From what i remember we use to take ralphy in for his curve once a month but towards the end he had cancer and was at the vet every week so they would check his BCL while he was there - even through all his operations etc his levels would still remain pretty steady.

I understand how frustrated you must be and i can only tell you that in time things will improve

I would honestly speak to another vet, our first vet said he could ONLY eat Hills w/d-i/d which was not true, your matilda will be so much happier eating something she/he enjoys the insulin dose can always be increased/decreased according to what she/he eats.

oh.. one other thing we use to add to his food is gravy, we would buy the Low Fat one and mix it up and poor it onto his food - this sometimes helps

[baifra]

Hi Baifra,

Thanks for your reply!

We are considering changing vet clinic's. We have changed the vet from the first one we saw with her as she just rushed the whole consult. And saw another at the smaller clinic and she was great the first time around! We are having to take her in fortnightly for curve tests so we have to go to their "bigger" clinic and it is just so rushed there, kind of like a bulk billing doctor in and out as quick as they can! Don't get me wrong they are nice enough and good BUT not overly supportive or imformative.

The urine testing was mentioned but they said we can only buy them if they think it is needed? And it is best just to bring her in for fortnightly curve tests!? I have heard of the glucometer but have no idea were to buy one from?? and the vets have never mentioned it? I think it would be important to test her BSL at home and do the chart as one day every two weeks isn't the best readings? Or would it be sufficent?

I didn't know there was a different brand to Caninsulin?

When we moved interstate our new vet was using Protophane on all his diabetic clients. At the time we were on Caninsulin but only once a day (which at that time was the way the insulin was given, I understand that these days it is twice daily).

Protophane is an insulin used on human diabetics and at first I was a little skeptical but gave it a try anyway. It worked beautifully!! Sammy's BSL's were very stable and the savings i made were enormous as I only used a fraction of insulin compared to the caninsulin. May be worth talking to your vet about it.

There were downsides. One day I accidently dropped the vial of insulin and smashed it to pieces. Of course this was on a saturday after my vet had shut and no other vets stocked that brand of insulin. I finally found an after hours vet that was willing to help me out and they gave me some caninsulin to last the weekend providing I kept a close eye on her BSL's. After that I made sure I had a back up vial handy!!

I did monitor Sammy's BSL's on a glucometer. I also kept a diary. At first I wrote down what food she ate, when and the amount of exercise she had for the day. I also recorded her BSL's. If she was feeling "off" eg, off her food, overly tired or drinking too much water I would write down any differences in her diet or daily routine. This made it easier to see any patterns and also gave the vet a very clear picture of what was going on.

As time went by, I didn't stress so much as she was very stable and I became much more confident in reading Sammy's behaviours.