Crate Training- Almost Giving Up

[KAT1]

Hi Everyone,

I have read much about crate training and wanted to try it with my puppy (golden retriever), but I am on the verge of giving up. He arrived 14 days ago and is now 11.5 weeks old. On the first few nights at home he loved his crate and slept well in it. However after a few days he started barking crying jumping up and scraping against the bars at night. We went to puppy preschool on Monday night and that evening he went into his crate and slept like an angel. Then last night he stayed in his crate for 7 hours without having to go out to the toilet. Now he is in his crate and howling and crying. I have taken him out to toilet and I know he has done both, but he just won't settle. I go in every 10 minutes to reassure him but then he just starts crying again. It sounds terrible. During the day he is mostly outside and I am wondering if he wants to be outside to sleep. when I am at home I try to have him inside with me, but sometimes he just doesn't want to come inside. I thought that it would be best to house train him using the crate and I wanted to have him sleeping inside. If someone could give me advice about what I am doing wrong I would greatly appreciate it.

KAT1

[aquaticmalamute]

I go in every 10 minutes to reassure him but then he just starts crying again. It sounds terrible.

Sounds like he has you well trained!

As awful as it is, you have to stick to your guns and ignore his crying. You will notice there is a difference between an "I need to go to the toilet" cry and an "i'm lonely/bored, come back" cry. As long as you know he has toileted and is just whining for attention you must ignore it. Beware though, he will carry on worse than ever during this stage as he tries his darndest to make you visit him, like you have been doing previously when he cries. They are very smart cookies!

The best thing to do is every time before you put him in his crate is to tire him out, and I mean use up so much physical and mental energy that he is falling alseep. That is except for toilet breaks during the night, he must learn that night time is quiet time. Take him out to do his buisness, ignore him till he has done his buisness then lots of praise and straight back into the crate and ignore till the next toilet break.

Always keep a couple of toys (and rotate them every few days or he will get bored of them) in the crate so that when he wakes up he has something to occupy himself. Also only let him out to play when he is being quiet so that he associates being quiet with being let out of the crate. If he starts crying when he sees you approach, about turn and leave the room, re-enter when he is quiet. He should catch on to the new routine very quickly

I feel your pain though. I remember lots of sleepness nights with my guys as they got used to the crate. I'll be going through it all again in 8 weeks time!

[KAT1]

Sounds like he has you well trained!

Hi aquaticmalamute.

Thank you! I figured he was testing me , but the noise is just so terrible that I was at my wits end. You are right, he is a very smart cookie!

I have been going in only when he quiets down for even a short few seconds and if he starts even the smallest littlest whine I do exactly what you said and turn heel. But when he is banging around in the crate and literally screaming down the place, I kept thinking that he might do some damage to himself. Last night once he had calmed down slightly after about 20 minutes of doggy screaming (him not me) I went in and opened the crate, I didn't let him out, but forced him to lie on his side, and I stroked him and told him to go to sleep. He eventually went to sleep after about 5 minutes and held on all night till I woke up this morning to take him out.

When he is really acting out that loudly and violently, should I go in to check on him? Or should I just leave him and put in some earplugs?

Tonight I will try and tire him out before sleep time.

Also, congratulations on your upcoming arrival!

[persephone]

I go in every 10 minutes to reassure him but then he just starts crying again.

Oh- and he is NOT "trying you out"

he is a BABY - who craves being with his family.

he cries because he is confined and isolated.

When, after 10/20 minutes, you arrive, he is satisfied.

Make sure you do several very short training sessions with him.. and have him do walking on leash around the backyard etc... to tire him mentally more so than physically.

he cries again...... but now he will possibly cry longer, as he 'knows' you will turn up!

So it goes......

[Stitch]

Don't go back when he is howling, as he is calling you back to let him out.

Hard to ignore I know, but try to resist as it just encourages him to howl more, as you have found out.

I haven't used one, but perhaps a water pistol, judiciously applied in certain circumstances may help.

Otherwise, activities to help him get rid of the energy and as Aqua... has said and keep going with the dog training classes.

You will work your way through this little setback so don't get frustrated.

Chill and regroup!

[poodlefan]

KAT1

We went to puppy preschool on Monday night and that evening he went into his crate and slept like an angel.

I suggest you replicate Monday night and spend some time playing and training him.

What kind of play and games is he getting before "bedtime".

Is there any reason he can't sleep in his crate in your bedroom?

I would not be returning to his crate when he calms down. I would also be putting the crate where you (before bedtime) are with the door open so that he can get used to it while you are around. Make it a pleasurable experience.. feed him in it and give him toys in there.

Is the crate covered? If not, put a blanket over it. It's meant to be den like.

Edited May 20, 2009 by poodlefan

[Sandra777]

During the day he's outside. Even when you're home he will often stay outside. At night he is in his crate. Sorry, not meaning to be harsh but just how much time every day is he getting with the family? Not just hanging out time, but actual interaction, attention etc. He was good after puppy preschool so like some one else said, replicate that. What did you do there - gave him lots of attention and tired out his brain with new experiences and learning.

I would not be giving him the option to stay outside either - you need to be having him inside (this is assuming you want him to be an inside dog) so you can actively teach him house rules. A puppy raised mostly outside and mostly crated when inside is not going to be reliably house trained because he never really gets to learn the distinction between in and out.

[KAT1]

During the day he's outside. Even when you're home he will often stay outside. At night he is in his crate. Sorry, not meaning to be harsh but just how much time every day is he getting with the family? Not just hanging out time, but actual interaction, attention etc. He was good after puppy preschool so like some one else said, replicate that. What did you do there - gave him lots of attention and tired out his brain with new experiences and learning.

I would not be giving him the option to stay outside either - you need to be having him inside (this is assuming you want him to be an inside dog) so you can actively teach him house rules. A puppy raised mostly outside and mostly crated when inside is not going to be reliably house trained because he never really gets to learn the distinction between in and out.

Hi Sandra,

He is outside because I am at work during the day and I would prefer him to be outside checking out the sounds and sights of the backyard than locked up in a tiny laundry all day. He is with us when we are at home, inside and outside, wherever I am he goes with me. I don't leave him outside when we are at home. I don't want him to stay outside, just the howling is so great at night that I thought he wanted to be outside. I would much rather have him inside with me when I am at home. Should I be leaving him inside all day when I am at work? How would I go about toilet training him then? Should I use newspaper? I think he would hate to be locked indoors all day. Based on some of the other posts to this forum it seems that people think that it is better for the puppies to be outdoors, as long as it is safe for them.

poodlefan, the crate is covered with a crate cover, so it is dark. He has his toys and blanket in there, and I give him a treat ball and a pigs ear to chew on during the night if he needs it. I am planning on really tiring him out before sleep tonight. Puppy preschool was, IMO quite sedate. The puppies didn't play very much, since they were still a bit shy, it being the first night. I am assuming that it was just the new experience that tired him out. We were also shown the tummy rub, and that REALLY helpe. It was like he was drunk and couldn't keep his eyes open. I did try using that too, last night, but it didn't work. I think he wasn't tired enough.

Thanks again for all your advice. Will try and tire him mentally and physically and then ignore crying that isn't associated with having to do his business outside.

KAT

[Hanzao]

umm sorry im a bit new I got a new westie pup.. What I read on the forums is that you have the crate next to your bed so he/she can see you (Ted needs the night light or he gets really scared) and just slowly move he/she away from you each night to build his separation confidence. But then I have been tiring out Ted and his been very sleepy when I put him in the crate.

We have had our pup Ted since Sunday night and his been well behaved.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Hanzao

[KAT1]

Unfortunately his crate is far to big to fit into my bedroom (he is a golden retriever and has an XL crate). I have tried sleeping on the couch in the loungeroom, where his crate is situated, but it doesn't work.

Last night he only howled for 1 hour. That is a big improvement from 2 hours. This time I took him out for a toilet break at the halfway mark, when he had the "I need to go to the toilet" whine, and he did his business immediately, and then I took him back inside and put him in his crate, and he howled another 20 minutes and then gave up and went to sleep. I didn't go in to check during this time since I was afraid that it would make matters worse. It seems to have worked. Hopefully tonight will be even shorter!

[Sandra777]

Hi Sandra,

He is outside because I am at work during the day and I would prefer him to be outside checking out the sounds and sights of the backyard than locked up in a tiny laundry all day. He is with us when we are at home, inside and outside, wherever I am he goes with me. I don't leave him outside when we are at home.

In your original posit you said "when I am at home I try to have him inside with me, but sometimes he just doesn't want to come inside." I was saying I would not give him the option of "preferring" to be outside WHEN YOUR HOME. When he's older and house trained, sure - but for now he needs to have very clear boundaries or he won't ever figure out the inside-outside thing

Yes, the mental stimulation of puppy school will tire him out as quick as any physical exercise. Just before bed is a great time to do some basic obedience.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Sandra777

[labbylicious]

(he is a golden retriever and has an XL crate).

Just curious

Have you partioned the crate inside so that its not so huge? AN XL crate would be very big and empty with only a little 12 week old GR pup in there..

[Gayle.]

You know what I did? And I'm not in any way suggesting you do the same thing, just relating my experience.

I took the screaming, crying, unhappy puppy out of the crate, made him a bed on our bedroom floor and he slept there very happily, and now at over 2 years of age, sleeps under our bed (or outside when he wants to). He's grown up to be a lovely, well-balanced and well-mannered dog, who's more than happy to relax in a crate at events or any time I need to crate him.

With our next puppy, I didn't even bother with the crate, she just came to bed with us, and now sleeps on our bed for most of the night and on her own bed in our room for some of it.

And she's also happy to be crated at events or when I need to have her in a crate.

Crates aren't the be all and end all of puppy training, and even if you don't successfully manage to have a happy puppy in a crate, don't give up hope. As an older puppy or an adult, he might be happy to go into a crate and stay there for as long as you need him to.

[all that glitters]

My shepherd pup sleeps GREAT in her crate.. as long as I am in my bed next to her haha! If I get up to go pee or get a drink she whinges, but I just ignore it, and get back into bed and turn the light out, and she immediately settles. Having the crate next to the bed is a bonus because they are MUCH calmer and quieter having you right next to them, they can smell you and hear you and feel at ease. But seeing as this isnt possible with your big crate (my big crate JUST jams against the side of my bed, lol!!) you will have to keep doing what you're doing, they will settle in time

Have u tried putting in a worn piece of something that smells like you? A tshirt or something? This definately comforted my girl in her first few sleeps @ her new home

Edited May 22, 2009 by Shellectra

[Red Fox]

Try giving him a pigs ear or stuffed Kong when you put him to bed and he will more than likely just chew himself to sleep

I would also try removing the crate cover for a while. Most dogs do like their crate to be 'den-like' eventually but your puppy may just be scared and confused because he cant see you.

If all else fails buy a cheap, smaller crate (either 2nd hand or online) put it next to your bed, and just use the XL one during the day until he is more confident. There's always people looking for cheap crates so you can sell a smaller one very easily when you no longer need it :p

Something like this: http://www.dealsdirect.com.au/p/dog-cage-52-76-60cm/

would probably do the job. Don't know about you, but I'd happily pay $50 for a good nights sleep :p

[KAT1]

Hi everyone. Thanks for your replies.

I do have the XL crate partitioned, with a piece of wood which has a hole in each corner which I attach to the inside of the crate using cable ties. However my 12 week old puppy is HUGE! He already fills almost half the crate! :p and i am thinking that when he is fully grown I may need an XXL crate!! :p I have attached a photo so you can see him and no, it isn't that I am feeding him too much, his father was a very big dog and when the litter was born they were already the size of 1 week old puppies!!!

I also have tried stuffed kongs and he has a pigs ear, but he isn't really food motivated unless he is really REALLY hungry. Initially it works to entice him into the crate (I close the door with them in and him out and make him beg to be let in) but then he just freaks when I lock the crate door on him.

HOWEVER, tonight I really exhausted him with play and training and walking on the lead,and I didn't let him fall asleep in the early evening. He was looking fairly sleepy so I gave him a belly rub and he just fell into a deep sleep. I put him in his crate and have not heard a peep out of him. I have to get to bed now so I can get the same amount of sleep!

[KAT1]

In your original posit you said "when I am at home I try to have him inside with me, but sometimes he just doesn't want to come inside." I was saying I would not give him the option of "preferring" to be outside WHEN YOUR HOME. When he's older and house trained, sure - but for now he needs to have very clear boundaries or he won't ever figure out the inside-outside thing

Yes, the mental stimulation of puppy school will tire him out as quick as any physical exercise. Just before bed is a great time to do some basic obedience.

Hi Sandra

Yes, you are right! I can't let him dictate where he wants to be when I am at home. Boundaries, I realise now, are important. Thanks for your advice!

KAT

[Mushaka]

Dont give up...

Before i had DOL i never crate trained.. Now i would never do anything BUT.

This is how i did it.

i had lots of pigs ears etc, and each time they went to the crate, i put the ear in. Gave a few mins of chew time. Before the pup asks to come out

i take her out and remove the ear or treat. the ONLY time a treat is given is inside the crate with closed door.

My dogs now go to bed in the crate on thier own. Some dogs are easier than others and be prepared to have some sleepless nights just as you would with a baby.

Good luck

[Joan of Arc]

Just looking in to see how your puppy went with his crate training last night.

Just keep plugging away at it, they end up being very good at going to bed and are better travellers if you want to take the crate on holidays with you.

[KAT1]

UPDATE

My puppy is slowly getting used to crate training. If I tire him out with training and play I can now get him into the crate of his own accord! no howling. Otherwise he howls for about the 5 minutes before settling down (time it takes me to have a shower).

Thanks for all your advice (and support)!!

KAT