Titre Testing

[PuddleDuck]

Hi All,

My gorgeous older boy, Doofus, will be 9 in December this year. I've had him since he was 14 months old and he has always been vaccinated on the "traditional" program of every 12 months. In the last 12 months (particularly since recieving our wonderful Toller and being introduced to the more holistic approach to vaccinating), I have started to question giving both the dogs and the cat their annual boosters. I've decided that as our kitty is an inside kitty who never gets to meet other kitties, she probably doesn't need any further vaccines at this stage!

So now I just have to work out what to do for the dogs - this week we got the vacc reminder from the vet, but I would rather get Titre testing done. My vet was somewhat confused but looked into it and they can test for Parvo and Distemper immunity; from the message they left I believe that the test needs to be done overseas and takes about a month to get the results. I'm keen to do it but I dont know when I should? We are on the Nthn Beaches in Sydney if that helps, and it is traditionally a pretty "safe" area.

Doofus as I mentioned has been on the "traditional" vaccine schedule for as long as I've had him and quite possibly before as well.

Kodi had C3 at 9 weeks, C5 at approx 14 weeks and is due for her first traditional yearly booster in October.

Should I titre test them when the booster is due or wait longer? I am not sure when is the best time to titre test them and dont want to do the test/spend the money if it is unneccesary for some time (I dont mind the cost but I dont want to do it if it is not needed!!).

The dogs are never boarded but will probably be joining an obedience club later this year.

Any thoughts would be appreciated, and if anyone has links to any vaccine studies I would love to see them. PMs are fine. I've searched through the DOL archives but am always keen for additional input - I am something of a nerd ;) (actually studies on all things canine are always welcome!)

Thanks in advance!

Edited May 13, 2009 by PuddleDuck

[Staff'n'Toller]

Hiya, welcome to dol.

This might be brief due to my killer headache tonight but have your Vet investigate sending the samples through Gribbles who use ?Vetpath? in WA, you will get hepatitis titres as well as distemper/parvo and it's cheaper than University of Colorado!!

There is tonnes of info in this sub section if you do a search (top right) on vaccinations or titire testing etc.

My boy had puppy vaccinations, then the 15mth vacc then a break for two years, and last year he had a C3 only which lasts for 3 years (Fort Dodge or Nobivac brand). He has been vacc'd only due to obedience/agility.

If you google Jean Dodds you should find a wealth of info on limited vaccination schedule and she is one of the authority's on it at the moment.

I tried to attach the WSAVA vaccination protocol recommended to Veterinarians but it's too big- that should be easy to find on the net- it's a pdf and I believe it may be being adopted soon by a major association here in Oz but at this stage it's hearsay.

If you're not on the worldwide Toller list I can give you details on how to join that too. ;)

Cheers,

Mel.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Staff'n'Toller

[stormie]

Symbion Pathology also send theirs to WA (in fact I'm pretty sure they bought VetPath). The price list I have from VetPath says that only Distemper and Parvo titres are done onsite, and that the Hepatitis needs to be sent away and generally has a 2 week turnaround time. This pricelist is 12months old though. I think those on dol that titre mostly only the the Parvo and Distemper?

If you can persuade your vet to send the samples directly to VetPath WA, it'll be cheaper as you'll avoid the other labs handling fees etc.

[julesluvscavs]

I'm looking into this too.. Haven't acted on it yet, or know where to get it done? I'm in SA..

I have always had ours done every year, but after reading a very long pros and cons thread about vaccinations(and over vaccinating) on DOL last year, hubby and I chose not to get ours done late last year when they were due. ( they usually have very bad reactions after)

From what we have read and researched some of the parts of the vaccinations don't need doing every year as vets have us believing ..

So yeah we are wanting to get ours titre tested as well...

We never board them, and we avoid them sharing water bowls with other dogs if we are out and about..

Edited May 14, 2009 by JulesLuvsCavs

[Rivsky]

I'm looking into this too.. Haven't acted on it yet, or know where to get it done? I'm in SA..

I know someone who had their dogs done at Marion Animal Hospital on Marion Road in Mitchell Park - 8277 3733.

[julesluvscavs]

I'm looking into this too.. Haven't acted on it yet, or know where to get it done? I'm in SA..

I know someone who had their dogs done at Marion Animal Hospital on Marion Road in Mitchell Park - 8277 3733.

Oh thanks for that Rivsky ! Marion is not to far to travel too from Strath

Our local vets might do it, but I think they are bit funny with us for choosing not to vaccinate last year

Edited May 14, 2009 by JulesLuvsCavs

[julesluvscavs]

I'm looking into this too.. Haven't acted on it yet, or know where to get it done? I'm in SA..

I know someone who had their dogs done at Marion Animal Hospital on Marion Road in Mitchell Park - 8277 3733.

Oh I've just noticed u are from SA as well, and have Cav !

Edited May 14, 2009 by JulesLuvsCavs

[Seita]

I do my titres yearly at the moment due to obedience etc as I get a certifcate from the vet to say the dog is immune, I also so the kennel cough vacc seperate for obedience and the odd trip to the kennels. My girl, who is 3, had 2 puppy vaccs then a booster at approx 12 months and then a titre at 2 and will be having her next titre today. My young pup will be getting his 2nd puppy vacc today and then I think I'll titre him at 15 mnths before vaccinating him again. If you do a search on here about titres you might find out about a vet that does them in house like mine in QLD does.

[Staranais]

From what we have read and researched some of the parts of the vaccinations don't need doing every year as vets have us believing ..

It's true that SOME vets are a bit behind with the whole vaccine thing, but at least where I live, most up to date vets do know that annual core vaccines (CPV + CDV + CAV) simply aren't necessary for dogs.

I'm not sure about the situation in Aus, but at least over here in NZ, there are core vaccine brands that are actually licensed by the manufacturer to be given only every 3 years after puppy vaccines. So if you use those vaccines, then you shouldn't have to even titre test until 3 years after the vaccination, as up until that point you're using the vaccine as per label. (If your local canine sports authority makes you vaccinate or titre earlier than the vaccine manufacturer says you need to, then they're behind the times, and are making you spend more money than you should be!) :cool:

Not sure what vaccine brands you have in Aus, but if your vet can get Duramune C3 by Fort Dodge, I'm pretty sure that's licensed for booster every 3 years. You might want to look into it.

*You may not live where I live, so your mileage may vary*

[Teebs]

Those who can get it done are so lucky :cool: I was priced $260 from my cheap vet per dog per year, i just cant afford that.

On the other hand, i have found a vet who is happy to do the 3 year Vaccination! it is $90 per dog, but i can handle that, so we will be getting that done at the end of the year

[Loraine]

I have just this year moved to Titer Testing. I understand that it has to be done yearly. The only place in Australia for the testing is in WA. I paid $180.00, but I saw another DOLer say she paid $80.00. I shall be vet shopping next year for a cheaper cost for the same testing

[skwo2]

Chelsea had an antibody titre testing done last year, titre testing alone cost about $90, but because this titre testing also comes with a consultation, so I get charged about $150. This is done with a holistic vet in Sydney.

However, when I talked to the normal vet that Chelsea used to visit about the antibody titre testing, he mentions that titre testing is useless, because the dog's own immune level can be low and still have a high level of antibody in the body, or the dog's immune level can be high and a low level of antibody. I don't quite understand what he says. I also talked to a person in another forum (before I talked to my vet), and she also mentioned that the titre testing is useless in terms of measuring immune system.

Anyway, I did the titre testing for the sake of training, and I hate to tell people that my dog is not vaccinated.

[laffi]

Chelsea had an antibody titre testing done last year, titre testing alone cost about $90, but because this titre testing also comes with a consultation, so I get charged about $150. This is done with a holistic vet in Sydney.

skwo2 where did you go in Sydney for the titer test?

[skwo2]

Chelsea had an antibody titre testing done last year, titre testing alone cost about $90, but because this titre testing also comes with a consultation, so I get charged about $150. This is done with a holistic vet in Sydney.

skwo2 where did you go in Sydney for the titer test?

All natural vet care at Russell Lea

Btw, your normal vet can also do titre testing, it is just getting blood and sending it off to the WA lab. Any vet is able to do it, but not sure if every vet like this idea vs vaccination

Edited May 15, 2009 by skwo2

[Staranais]

However, when I talked to the normal vet that Chelsea used to visit about the antibody titre testing, he mentions that titre testing is useless, because the dog's own immune level can be low and still have a high level of antibody in the body, or the dog's immune level can be high and a low level of antibody. I don't quite understand what he says. I also talked to a person in another forum (before I talked to my vet), and she also mentioned that the titre testing is useless in terms of measuring immune system.

It's not useless, but it's not as useful as it's sometimes made out.

Titre testing measures the level of antibody in the dog's blood serum against a particular antigen (part of a pathogen). For many diseases, if a dog has a certain level of serum antibodies against the disease pathogen, that indicates that the dog is almost certainly immune to the disease.

What your vet was probably referring to is the fact that although having an adequate antibody level demonstrates the dog is almost certainly immune to the disease, the reverse isn't necessarily true - having a lower serum antibody level doesn't necessarily mean that the dog is susceptible to the pathogen. Typically, the serum antibody titre level will rise steeply after a successful vaccination, and then gradually fall over a long period of time (unless the dog re-encounters the pathogen either from a booster shot or in the environment). However, the body also produces different types of immune memory cells after vaccination, which may last for many years, or even the lifetime of the dog. These can still be present in the dog even if the titre (actual level of antibody in the dog's blood serum) is low, so the dog may still be solidly immune to the disease even if its serum antibody titre is low.

So titre testing isn't "useless" - it can be a useful way of proving to a canine sports body that your dog is still immune to a disease, and therefore proving to them that you don't need to re-vaccinate your dog. Even if it's been ten or fifteen years since your dog's last vaccination, if he still has a protective serum antibody titre for that disease, then there is no point in re-vaccinating the dog against the disease, and no-one should make you do so.

However, having a low or negative titre test result doesn't mean much at all, so in this case titre testing could be considered "useless". Most canine sports organisations will make you re-immunise the dog in this case, as you can't prove the dog is immune (although he may well be - there's really no way of telling).

Make sense?