Harnessing And Focussing Drive

[LilBailey]

Hi all

OH and I are working with a handler and dog atm on flyball. The dog is already competitive in flyball and has a lot of drive, the main problemn is harnessing and focusing that drive so that he can be the fast competitive solid flyball dog he has the potential to be.

I have a few ideas but just wondering what other people might suggest.

Thanks

[dogdude]

What are his specific problem/s ?

[LilBailey]

He doesn't have any specific problems really, just that he has heaps more potental. He is a bit airy fairy I guess you could say. But he does what he is supposed to do when he is supposed to (well he did in training) he just could do it soo much better if he concentrated.

[dogdude]

Is it a distraction problem Lilbailey?

[LilBailey]

He is not destrated by anything in particular. He is just full of his own energy, he is a kelpie.

I'm thinking some TOT may help to get him to focus and drive for a toy then he has a more specific responce. atm he seems to just do flyball because it in it's self is fun.

[dogdude]

Although i'm not a flyball person, your suggestion makes sense to me. Do some specific drive for item building on a tie out to use as motivation.

Shoemonster may be able to help you with some suggestions too.

[LilBailey]

LOL I'm not sure Shoey can help she would have to get her hands off my pup first. LOL

[poodlefan]

The first thing I would check for any performance dog not fulfilling its potential would be physical issues.

Has the dog been recently vet checked and chiropracted? Flyball is hard on a dog - very hard.

Is the dog as fit as it might be. What kind of conditioning is it getting outside of flyball training? Is it running in harness? If it is, is the old style that crossed the chest and restricts movement. Take the harness off it it is and see if it makes a difference.

The second thing I would check is that the dog had a very clear understanding of what was expected of it. If you throw a toy and the dog goes out hard after it and brings it back the same way, my guess is that you are a dealing with a training issue.

[LilBailey]

PF I think it is more likley a training thing than a physical thing. Probably an attention thing I would guess.

[poodlefan]

PF I think it is more likley a training thing than a physical thing. Probably an attention thing I would guess.

Until you eliminate physical reasons for less than full effort, you'll never know. Dogs in pain can be very difficult to spot.

If you are required to do a bunch of hurdles, turn hard on a box and do the hurdles again, and it HURTS, how hard will you keep trying. Working dogs are some of the worst (or best) for trying even though they hurt... but they shouldn't have to.

Get the handler to take the dog to a DECENT canine chiropractor and if it's in a chest harness, take the damn thing off.

Edited May 11, 2009 by poodlefan

[LilBailey]

Thanks PF but at this stage it really is more of a training issue than a physical one. His owner is well aware of the physical pressures of dog sports as are we.

When I say he is already competitive I mean he can do a full run in a competition situation, he wasn't trained by us and if he had been he would not be competing yet as IMO he is not mentally ready to handle it with out hurting himself or someone else.

[shoemonster]

We worked out the ultimate answer for beagles and staffs at the last comp - leg of ham as a motivator, guaranteed to get them going that bit harder!!!! :rolleyes:

I think about this problem alot, the dogs that do flyball, but dont have that Ï have to do this faster than a speeding bullet" attitude

I have the same problem with Molly, though she will never be a super fast dog, she has more than she is showing me, she finds the actual run self rewarding so nothing else is really that exciting at the end to get her coming back any quicker than she does, though I'm sure she could, I know she could go faster, just need to figure out how to get her doing it

I'm thinking that through the TID she would pick up, and am tossing up what to do - if I go back to the start of TID with her, get that ultimate focus on her reward, but for a dog you havent taught and dont have all the time it might be a bit hard

TOT is sure to help, with control and focus

Give Vegas a big smooch for me, I wont get to see him for agesssssss!

Edited May 11, 2009 by shoemonster

[Squirt]

I have a kelpie who began at the Nationals last yr and only recently is clocking under 4s. I think some of it is maturity (age) and 'getting that it is a race' but training, we:

- although she could do full runs, we continued to break down the exercise (box turns, box turns over one jump etc, power jumping (racing against another dog), recall on the tug etc) to observe what it was that she wasn't giving 100% to. So we didn't just run her up and down the course because she could do full runs. Think breaking it down like this made it alot easier to 'diagnose' what we had to work on.

Racing anoher dog in power jumping (8 jumps) or recalls, and letting one dog go just before the other sped her up alot. We also ran her brother over the 8 and let her go after he had jumped the second one (so two running at the same time) - Gee, it's the fastest i have seen both of them run.

Does this make sense? (it's early in the morning)

[Kavik]

I have a question about flyball. When you do competitions for points that count towards your title, are you allowed to have rewards with you in the ring? All the demos I've seen the handler is holding a big tug for the dog to get after the jumps. In obedience and agility you are not allowed rewards in the ring, was wondering if it is the same in flyball.

[shoemonster]

Kavik, yep you have your tug or food or whatever you use in the ring in comps, only thing you're not allowed is to throw the reward, ie if your dog loves the balls you cant throw a ball at the end, you have to keep hold of the reward

Squirt, i was reading about the power jumps in the last newsletter, sounds good, I would like to try it (glad you reminded me!)

[LilBailey]

SM: We are supposed to be going to the sporting terrier show but the entry is still sittin gon the coffee table waiting to be sent. LOL opps.

Squirt: Thats a really good idea, breaking it all down. The club that she came from tends to mainly do full run after full run.

So far I have TOT to build some focus and breakdown the exersizes to see were some extra work is needed.

PS what is TID? or what ever you said SM

Edited May 11, 2009 by LilBailey

[huski]

Lilbailey... TID stands for training in drive

[dogdude]

So far I have TOT to build some focus and breakdown the exersizes to see were some extra work is needed.

PS what is TID? or what ever you said SM

Training in drive

I think the point Squirt was also making, was that by breaking the exercises down, you can not only find a problem, but use the breakdown to quicken specific areas like you would in obedience trial training, like faster turns etc.

Its getting the dog to focus on the part job at hand rather than the conclusion, promoting a concentrated effort.

[LilBailey]

Its getting the dog to focus on the part job at hand rather than the conclusion, promoting a concentrated effort.

DD you put it the exact words I was looking for.

The handler has the time and is wanting to train at home as well as at class so that is a big plus.

[Squirt]

I think the point Squirt was also making, was that by breaking the exercises down, you can not only find a problem, but use the breakdown to quicken specific areas like you would in obedience trial training, like faster turns etc.

Its getting the dog to focus on the part job at hand rather than the conclusion, promoting a concentrated effort.

That's the main reason we did it. We knew she was going to be quick, but this ensured precision at every stage - keep in mind it's several different behaviours all rolled into one. We did it mainly for the box turn but also to ensure the same speed going to the box and back.

Best of luck with the training... love to see more kelpies out there!!