Sit, Fetch, Stay Or Die: The Pit Bull Ambassador Program

[Just Midol]

That's a bullshit excuse.

A temperament test is no more dangerous than the training information posted on websites and forums world wide. If they don't want to make it public, then I'll assume there is a reason for it.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Just Midol

[Greytmate]

But it needs to be understood a lot of effort has been put into those dogs to achieve that. As for any rescue dog.

The' end product dog' should not be confused with the 'raw material dog' that turned up in the pound in the first place.

That is true. If you look at the way that the Pitbull Ambassadors are marketed to potential adoptors, this point is made very clear. It is the point of difference that really makes owning one an attractive proposition for those that are having a few doubts. I almost wanted one they sound so good.

That's a bullshit excuse.

A temperament test is no more dangerous than the training information posted on websites and forums world wide. If they don't want to make it public, then I'll assume there is a reason for it.

Follow the links I posted, it does explain more about the criteria for Pitbull Ambassador.

Our Greyhound Behaviour Test © is not made public either. Aussienot is right, this sort of thing is not made available for just anyone to use. It is important for the integrity of the test that we don't have untrained people claiming to have used it and then giving their opinion on it. The test results are only valid if the test is conducted in the right way, and to learn how to conduct the test, you would have to see tests being conducted. Our test is only legally valid if trained, authorised people conduct it anyway.

It doesn't matter if our test is no more dangerous than all the training info posted all over the www. If people want to post potentially dangerous info, nobody is going to stop them. I choose to be responsible and not do that.

If you want a copy of our test, you are quite welcome to come and watch our testing, and then maybe I will give you a copy of the test for your own interest. But first you would have to apologise to Aussienot for saying her excuse is bullshit.

[Bartok]

Cuz I'm tired and just skimming, I haven't read everything.

So my fault if I get slapped for this, but can someone explain why there is different tests for different breeds?

Shouldn't a temp test, be just that? Regardless of breed?

[Mushaka]

Cuz I'm tired and just skimming, I haven't read everything.

So my fault if I get slapped for this, but can someone explain why there is different tests for different breeds?

Shouldn't a temp test, be just that? Regardless of breed?

I think that was kind of the point of the original post.. why seperate the pits.

[Greytmate]

The pits are being singled out because a group of people love the breed and wanted to increase their adoption rate. By doing what they can to ensure that the dogs they adopt out are of the highest quality, they will attract more people to want to adopt their dogs. It is a strategy that works well to reduce the numbers of dogs being euthanised.

Whatever test anyone is using on other breeds, it really has nothing to do with what pitbull rescuers are trying to achieve with the dogs that they adopt out. The article doesn't explain what tests are used for any breed. It doesn't explain much at all it's just opinion.

Do you really think that the Pit bull Ambassador program was started as an excuse to kill pit bulls? Think about it. Why would people put so much time and effort into this program if they did not want to see more pit bulls adopted? They are operating in a country that sees thousands of pit bulls dumped each year, and not many being adopted out. Why not support a program that aims to ensure that people adopting these dogs get a well-balanced pet?

[Mushaka]

how can culling most of them based on basic issues like pulling on a lead benefit a breed.

Base it on the usual standards and yea for sure,i agree... Im not naive,., ive been in rescue not long but long enough to know the harsh realities of it. Not all dogs should be saved.

But NO ONE can tell me a dog who doesnt SIT on cue,should be PTS...no matter the breed

[Greytmate]

how can culling most of them based on basic issues like pulling on a lead benefit a breed.

Where do you get the idea that most of them will be culled based on basic issues like pulling on a lead? Who are you acusing of doing this thing? You cannot make an outrageous claim like that without any evidence. It is a very nasty thing to say about people that are working hard to help a breed.

Read the websites of the people actually running the program, and there is ample evidence of how the program does benefit the breed.

Base it on the usual standards and yea for sure,i agree... Im not naive,., ive been in rescue not long but long enough to know the harsh realities of it. Not all dogs should be saved.

But NO ONE can tell me a dog who doesnt SIT on cue,should be PTS...no matter the breed

But Nathan Winograd is the only one telling you this. And you seem to believe him.

Have you actually checked out the true situation for yourself, or are you just swallowing the tripe dished out in the first post? If you have checked it out, and can find an example of where dogs have been put to sleep for not sitting on cue?

If I am wrong, show me where I am wrong. Otherwise, have the courtesy to stop the nasty attacks on the Pitbull Ambassador Program, until you have some idea of what you are talking about.

[sandgrubber]

Sandgrubber, both sides need to get together & arrive at a more coherent message about pitbulls.

And get rid of the emotive prose. The dogs themselves will not benefit from the confrontation that the article sets up.

I agree with you that the Ambassador Program has set out to do their best via pitbulls.

But it would help if they'd also address the problem which pitbulls face when they come into pounds & shelters. And the immediate decisions made there. The step before any AP Program gets their hands on any.

Actually, one focus of the Ambassadors program is to work with rescues orgs and shelters. A big problem in the US is that many shelters refuse to take pitties because of their reputation. Animal Farm, which runs the Ambassadors program, is joint sponsor of a program to educate shelters about APBT's. See:

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/partners.cfm

Note, I'm no authority on this . . . I've just taken a few minutes to scan websites on both sides of the issue. I conclude one side is a raving loony on the no-kill bandwagon and the other side is a broadly based, well funded, intelligent program dedicated to restoring the reputation of the APBT and ending breed discrimination.

[Greytmate]

I conclude one side is a raving loony on the no-kill bandwagon and the other side is a broadly based, well funded, intelligent program dedicated to restoring the reputation of the APBT and ending breed discrimination.

I agree with that.

[shel]

The practical application

From the Washington Post....

For years, Loudoun euthanized all abandoned pit bulls. The county revised its policy in 2007, allowing the animals to be transferred to rescue groups or shelters in other jurisdictions if they passed a temperament test.

Loudoun's decision to allow some pit bulls to be transferred to rescue groups or other shelters came after a 2006 nonbinding opinion by then-Attorney General Robert F. McDonnell, who said that pit bulls taken to public pounds could not be euthanized based solely on their breed.

The plaintiffs presented evidence that the Loudoun shelter had euthanized more than 80 percent of abandoned pit bulls since it began allowing the animals to be transferred, compared to a euthanization rate of 48 percent for other dogs.

Sherry Woodard, animal behavior expert for Best Friends Animal Society, said that pit bulls that did well on behavior assessments were put down but that other breeds that did not do as well on the assessments were trained and put up for adoption.

"This discrimination against pit bulls is becoming a topic of discussion across the country," Woodard said in a statement Tuesday. "There are golden retrievers who attack other dogs, labs who bite people, pit bulls that love children, dogs and cats. Every dog, every time, deserves to be evaluated as an individual."

Read the whole article

[sandgrubber]

Read the whole article

Please clarify. What does this have to do with the Pit Bull Ambassador's program? All I can see is that some judge upheld a publically funded shelter's right to do BSL, including euthanasia. As I read it, the legal ruling says they can PTS based on breed without behavioural screening. I think most of us disagree with that ruling.

The kill rate is higher for APBT's at the shelter under discussion . . . but this could be because APBTS weren't being adopted, or because local BSL made it very difficult for people to adopt them.

Edited May 30, 2009 by sandgrubber

[Greytmate]

The practical application

From the Washington Post....

For years, Loudoun euthanized all abandoned pit bulls. The county revised its policy in 2007, allowing the animals to be transferred to rescue groups or shelters in other jurisdictions if they passed a temperament test.

That is a good thing. Shelters working with rescue in a responsible way.

Loudoun's decision to allow some pit bulls to be transferred to rescue groups or other shelters came after a 2006 nonbinding opinion by then-Attorney General Robert F. McDonnell, who said that pit bulls taken to public pounds could not be euthanized based solely on their breed.

The plaintiffs presented evidence that the Loudoun shelter had euthanized more than 80 percent of abandoned pit bulls since it began allowing the animals to be transferred

Fantastic news. Instead of all pitbulls being euthanised, up to 20% of abandoned pitbulls are now being put up for rehoming.

compared to a euthanization rate of 48 percent for other dogs.

If you break it down by breed, you will find that with a standard behaviour test like the Amy Marder Test, different breeds will tend to have different pass rates. So to get an average rate of 48% pass, you would get some breeds of dogs getting higher pass rates and some breeds getting lower pass rates. Has this fail rate of 80% in pitbulls been compared to the fail rate for other terrier breeds tested at the same shelter? Has it been compared with other breeds that have a similar owner demographic? Has an analysis been done on reasons for surrender at that shelter and whether that has an effect on the pass rate on behaviour tests?

Sadly, no behaviour test is perfect, although there are people working on that. We found that we had to add breed specific components to our behaviour test in order to correctly assess our dogs. In an all-breed shelter you could say that using the same test for all dogs is the fairest thing to do. This means that the pass rates for different breeds will be different.

Sherry Woodard, animal behavior expert for Best Friends Animal Society, said that pit bulls that did well on behavior assessments were put down but that other breeds that did not do as well on the assessments were trained and put up for adoption.

"This discrimination against pit bulls is becoming a topic of discussion across the country," Woodard said in a statement Tuesday. "There are golden retrievers who attack other dogs, labs who bite people, pit bulls that love children, dogs and cats. Every dog, every time, deserves to be evaluated as an individual."

Is the issue that other breeds are not being tested correctly? It is a fact of life that some breeds are more popular than others, and 'special needs' dogs of desirable breeds do tend to be more easily rehomable than good specimens of less desirable breeds. Kudos to those working to enhance the reputation of the pitbull, so that it can be more desirable too.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Greytmate