Couple Of Questions On Raw Diet

[Tazzierescued]

OH and I are thinking on starting Tazzie on a raw diet, he's been on Science Diet since we adopted him 6 months ago (that was what the shelter was feeding) but the more I learn about dogs diet the worse it seems and we seriously think moving away from processed, commercial food sounds the most logical. Some info, Taz is a approx 2-4 year old, 5 kg male, believed to be a terrier/papillon/some other mix.

Just wondering if some of the older hands here can see if the following diet daily sounds ok:

2 chicken necks/wings (about 40-50g each)

50g of pork/beef mince

various vegs/fruits, minced by the blender (~10g)

A raw egg with shell, once a week

A fish oil capsule, twice a week

Also, I've read somewhere that raw food is digested a lot quicker than the commercial dry foods, does this mean that we've got to feed him a light meal in the mornings, as we're just currently feeding him once a day in the evening when on dry food.

Any input much appreciated, thanks!

Edited May 8, 2009 by Tazzierescued

[puggy_puggy]

I only feed once a day in the afternoon/evening. Other people feed twice a day.

Your diet sounds pretty good. Remember that generally you should fed an adult dog 2% of their ideal body weight daily. So with Taz being 5kg that would mean 100grams of food a day.

My veggie & fruit slops contain whole eggs that have been food processed.

I generally feed....

Monday - Chicken necks & veggie slops

Tuesday - Fish & veggie slops

Wednesday - Chicken necks & veggie slops

Thursday - Offal or Kangaroo or Beef or Lamb & veggie slops

Friday - Chicken necks & veggie slops

Saturday - Lamb bone

Sunday - Offal or Kangaroo or Beef or Lamb or Fish & veggie slops

This can swap and change a little.

[Gayle.]

Rather than a fish oil capsule, he might enjoy a sardine more. My dogs love their sardines and they are very good for them as the soft bones provide them with calcium.

Add in some offal as well.....liver, kidneys etc. Maybe in with the mince.

A little dog would enjoy a lamb brisket bone too.......they are edible as they aren't weight bearing bones, and are a nice alternative to chicken pieces.

Go easy on the chicken wings, they are very high in fat.

Try him with a small, whole apple as a snack. One of my dogs loves apples to the point where he will steal one and sneak away and eat it in private.

[tyra20007]

Dogs are not designed or equipped to properly digest and absorb cooked food, as we humans are. They have been evolving on this planet for 40 million years (more than 2000 times the entire history of human evolution) eating fresh food. Their mouths, teeth, stomach, intestines, organs and enzymes, are all evolved to masticate, process, digest and absorb raw food (not cooked food).

There is a growing stockpile of scientific evidence that links the long term consumption of cooked commercial pet foods, to the development of a vast array of common illnesses and degenerative diseases, including cancer. Skin disease and dermatitis, allergies, teeth and gum disease, arthritis, renal failure, ear infections, obesity, reproductive failure, and anal gland blockage can all be linked to improper nutrition, and can all lead to poorer quality of life for both pet and owner.

An outline of what I feed 2 Adult Dobermann is:

Morning -

Bones are very important - Lamb Brisket / Lamb Chine / Beef Brisket / Whole Chicken Frames / Chicken Necks - are an essential part of the diet - they will clean the teeth and work the jaw muscles - all the bones I have listed are 100% edible whereas some bones like beef marrow bones or lamb shanks are brittle undigestable bone and can be dangerous if a splinter is consumed, they also leave bones around the yard for burying or the lawn mower getting so best avoided - go for bones the dogs can eat the whole thing.

Every couple of days I also give 2-3 fresh sardines per dog whole.

DINNER MIX - The mix I use is made up of

Make sure ALL meats are HUMAN GRADE - NOT PET GRADE as Pet Grade may contain parasites which can be transferred to the dog so best avoided.

35% Chunky Beef Mince (Human grade - reasonably lean not diet)

35% Minced whole Chicken Frames (Available from Lenards Chicken Shops)

20% Chopped Offal - Lamb Liver / Lamb kidneys / Lamb brains / beef heart.

10% Soaked Fermented Vets All Natural (link below)

I make up 50Kg per month and weigh it up into individual servings and freeze it (Adult Male dog gets 650gms Adult Female gets 450gm)

VETS ALL NATURAL:

Complete mix contains a combination of mixed cereal grains (rolled oats, cracked barley, soybean meal, flax seed meal, and whole oats), dried vegetables and fruit, dried garlic, dried parsley, dried barley grass, calcium powder, yeast powder, kelp granules, lecithin granules and vitamin C powder.

http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/PDFS/CM...

To the defrosted servings I add vegetables & some supplements which I will post the links for.

10% Grated Vegetables and Fruit (Carrot/Apple/Zuchinni/Spinach etc)

Omega Oil Blend -

This is a specially formulated oil blend for dogs & cats to help supply essential fatty acids, vitamins A, D & extra vitamin E. Contains 100% cold-pressed oils - safflower, flaxseed, sunflower, cod liver oil, evening primrose oil, wheatgerm oil and pure vitamin E oil. Simply add to your pets food daily.!

http://www.greenpet.com.au/pet-shop/cart...

Green Essentials -

This is a natural food supplement recommended for all dogs and cats. It contains a blend of highly nutritious foods and supplements to help maintain optimum health. Contains vitamins, minerals, enzymes, trace elements and fatty acids. 100% Australian made. Good nutrition is essential for disease prevention. Contains - flax meal, rice bran, dolomite, kelp, spirulina, green barley powder, nettle, alfalfa, garlic, rosehips and blackstrap molasses.

http://www.greenpet.com.au/pet-shop/cart...

Probiotic Powder - Pet Pep Up for Dogs (Missing link for dogs is very similar)

An organic probiotic food supplement for improving intestinal balance and enhancing your dogs health and vitality. Petpepup for Dogs is the first certified organic probiotic produced using totally natural ingredients and methods. This product can be used confidently with the knowledge that it is environmentally friendly.

Dogs love this all natural, certified organic, probiotic powder. Careful manufacturing produces strong, viable cultures delivered in a food based product. This rich powder is high in active enzymes, antioxidants, natural amino acids, fatty acids, vitamins and minerals. Great for restoring and maintaining dogs' digestive balance.

Particularly helpful for dogs under stress, competing, training, travelling, breeding, lactating, undergoing rapid growth and effective in restoring intestinal flora after treatment with antibiotics, dewormers and other medications.

Petpepup for Dogs may also assist with:

Healthy coat

Good digestion

Overall health

Healthy joints

Recovery from illness or surgery

Dogs in old age - gives back the young spark

Bitches in whelp

Pups while still feeding (before & after weaning)

Improving energy levels

http://www.petpepup.com.au/ingredients/a...

http://www.petpepup.com.au/ingredients/o...

Each night I alternate adding an egg / cottage cheese / active manuka honey

I hope that gives you an idea of what a balanced BARF diet consists of - if you have questions please don't hesitate to email me and I will do all I can to help you out - the first few months are hard but once you find a routine and suppliers for all you need you can spend an hour every 2 weeks and freeze Bones & Sardines etc individually which makes it as convenient as processed pet poison (dog kibble) When you feed a balanced BARF diet you DO NOT need to give the dog any dry food as they will be getting all they need within the diet.

Don't hesitate to ask me anything and do some research :

http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_more...

[Tazzierescued]

Thank you all for your insight, its been very helpful! Looks like I'll add in a bit of offal in with the mince daily or set aside a day of 2 where the offal replaces the mince.

GayleK would there be any issues with choking on sardine bones? I've always heard about people choking on the small fishbones and was wondering if sardines have the smaller bones which might be a choking hazard too.

And yes being big fans of apple ourselves, Taz will certainly be getting apple in his veg/fruit minces.

[puggy_puggy]

GayleK would there be any issues with choking on sardine bones? I've always heard about people choking on the small fishbones and was wondering if sardines have the smaller bones which might be a choking hazard too.

Sardine bones are to soft and mushy to cause any problems.

[tomas]

OH and I are thinking on starting Tazzie on a raw diet, he's been on Science Diet since we adopted him 6 months ago (that was what the shelter was feeding) but the more I learn about dogs diet the worse it seems and we seriously think moving away from processed, commercial food sounds the most logical. Some info, Taz is a approx 2-4 year old, 5 kg male, believed to be a terrier/papillon/some other mix.

Just wondering if some of the older hands here can see if the following diet daily sounds ok:

2 chicken necks/wings (about 40-50g each)

50g of pork/beef mince

various vegs/fruits, minced by the blender (~10g)

A raw egg with shell, once a week

A fish oil capsule, twice a week

Also, I've read somewhere that raw food is digested a lot quicker than the commercial dry foods, does this mean that we've got to feed him a light meal in the mornings, as we're just currently feeding him once a day in the evening when on dry food.

Any input much appreciated, thanks!

I feed once a day.

But you must add the offal,this is vital.

I use Green Tripe as well as offal and actually the Tripe makes up 2/3 of my 5 dogs diets. They get some amount of this everyday.

They also get muscle meat,offal and meaty and digestible bone. But Green Tripe is my secret weapon,I have an older high HD dog who runs more than 3 hours most days on no medication or supplements other than a few Fish Oil caps.

Here is the breakdown of Tripe.

Beef, tripe, raw

Food Code : 2670

Nutrient name Unit of measure Value per 100 g of edible portion

Moisture g 84.16

Ash g 0.6

Protein g 12.07

Total Fat g 3.69

Carbohydrate g 0

Alcohol g 0

Energy (kcal) kCal 85

Energy (kJ) kJ 355

Calcium, Ca mg 69

Iron, Fe mg 0.59

Magnesium, Mg mg 13

Phosphorus, P mg 64

Potassium, K mg 67

Sodium, Na mg 97

Zinc, Zn mg 1.42

Copper, Cu mg 0.07

Manganese, Mn mg 0.085

Selenium, Se µg 12.5

Niacin mg 0.881

Niacin equivalents NE 3.094

Pantothenic acid mg 0.227

Riboflavin mg 0.064

Thiamin mg 0

Vitamin B-6 mg 0.014

Vitamin B-12 µg 1.39

Since dogs and cats cannot convert vegetation into nutrients within their own stomach they receive these nutrients that have already been processed from eating tripe.

Juliette de Bairacli Levy states in her book The Complete Herbal Book for the Dog; "I would suggest breeders make good use of such flesh foods as the following: paunches of all animal (the raw, uncleaned paunches of healthy grass-fed animals can be fed with much benefit to all breeds of dogs). I learned this from a gypsy in the Forest of Dean: this man had bred many famous greyhounds, & he told me that such fare was the finest of natural food tonics."

Benefits of feeding Tripe

Improved appetite and digestion

Cleaner teeth

Improved skin condition

Improved coats and lower susceptibility to fleas

Calmer temperaments

Decreased feces

How to feed tripe

Feed raw along with good meaty raw bones, muscle organs,

My guys get canned sardies as well as fresh whole fish. No grains or cereal or plant matter other than the Tripe. I did veggies for a few years but once I started feeding Tripe I gave up,what a pain.

Today they had Tripe,cottage cheese an egg and half a chicken each.

Tomorrow is veal back bones,Tripe,beef and cheek and some yoghurt.

I usually do eggs most days sometimes every second day.

Let their poop be your guide,too hard and they strain, feed less bone and more meat for a few days,too soft,add more bone.

My boys can run as much as they do and still keep weight on,I feed all 5 for less than $60 a week,premium kibble would cost me over $100!

Tomas.

[cassie]

Sorry for the stupid question but what is tripe exactly? And where do you buy it from? ("You" meaning general, not one particular person )

[tomas]

Sorry for the stupid question but what is tripe exactly? And where do you buy it from? ("You" meaning general, not one particular person )

Tripe is the edible lining and accompanying content of a ruminant's first or second stomach. Paunch tripe comes from the large first stomach and honeycomb tripe comes from the second. Green tripe means that the tripe has not been cleaned, bleached or scalded. The actual color can be green or almost black in color. It should never be white or almost white. This product has been used in Europe for years by many of the old time breeders.

I am in NZ so no idea where you get it in Aussie. But it is well worth looking for! Any dog I know of that gets a large amount of it,will look vastly different in only a few weeks. Better coat,clearer eyes,more muscle etc etc.

You must feed other stuff too,although it is already very balanced, but it really works. I also know people who use it as an addition to kibble and still see benefits.

Tomas.

[Bully]

Sorry for the stupid question but what is tripe exactly? And where do you buy it from? ("You" meaning general, not one particular person )

Tripe is the edible lining and accompanying content of a ruminant's first or second stomach. Paunch tripe comes from the large first stomach and honeycomb tripe comes from the second. Green tripe means that the tripe has not been cleaned, bleached or scalded. The actual color can be green or almost black in color. It should never be white or almost white. This product has been used in Europe for years by many of the old time breeders.

I am in NZ so no idea where you get it in Aussie. But it is well worth looking for! Any dog I know of that gets a large amount of it,will look vastly different in only a few weeks. Better coat,clearer eyes,more muscle etc etc.

You must feed other stuff too,although it is already very balanced, but it really works. I also know people who use it as an addition to kibble and still see benefits.

Tomas.

I'd love to be able to get green tripe but AFAIK you can only get it from an abbatior as it is illegal to sell to the public in Australia unless it is bleached which kills all the goodness

Here's a great article on raw tripe No Guts, No Glory

[tlc]

Im reading this thread with great interest, especailly about the tripe, so is it ok for them to have white tripe? the type we can get in the supermarket and if so how much would be ok to feed in conjunction with a diet already consisting of beef, veg, bones, ( lamb, chicken necks chicken wings) fish, eggs and a small amount of dry food.

I get a bit confused about the offal as when my oldest dog now 3 was a pup, he wouldnt eat and I tried a lot of things and he loved liver so I was adding liver to his diet of mince and veg and he was loving it but the vet told me to cut out the liver as too much was bad for them and as I was using it as a training treat once a week at obedience that was enough. (all other daily training I use dry kibble)

oh and another thing, do you cook the tripe or do they have it raw??

[tomas]

Im reading this thread with great interest, especailly about the tripe, so is it ok for them to have white tripe? the type we can get in the supermarket and if so how much would be ok to feed in conjunction with a diet already consisting of beef, veg, bones, ( lamb, chicken necks chicken wings) fish, eggs and a small amount of dry food.

I get a bit confused about the offal as when my oldest dog now 3 was a pup, he wouldnt eat and I tried a lot of things and he loved liver so I was adding liver to his diet of mince and veg and he was loving it but the vet told me to cut out the liver as too much was bad for them and as I was using it as a training treat once a week at obedience that was enough. (all other daily training I use dry kibble)

oh and another thing, do you cook the tripe or do they have it raw??

As Bully said,there is little nutritional value in the white or bleached tripe.

I basically use mine as a probitic and filler ,like us taking a multi vitamin.

Shame you can't get it in Aussie,I get mine delivered frozen to the door. 20kgs for $35!

My guys get liver 2-3 times a week,they eat that first! At a kill the organs are what the wild canids always ate first. These are the highly prized items where much goodness is to be found.

Tomas.