Lablover Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 (1) 100% drive/excitement (2) 90% drive/excitement (3) 80% drive/excitement Less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickasyoucan Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 (edited) (1) 100% drive/excitement(2) 90% drive/excitement (3) 80% drive/excitement Less? Where does the control element come into this? ie if my dog is 100% in drive after a prey item whatever that might be with no input from my part, he wouldn't listen to anything. But if I could get my timing right in drive training I reckon a dog in full drive with focus would have amazing response times and would pretty much do anything for drive satisfaction. I am sure people with more experience can elaborate. SORRY or do you mean a dog with a temperament that is 100% drive etc etc....? Edited May 4, 2009 by Quickasyoucan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 It's very hard to work with a dog with a 100% drive/excitement. If you can manage though you will get the strongest behaviors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 Sorry in the learning/teaching phase. Oh gawd, I am hopeless explaining myself!! Um....err....um.....do you try to settle/calm a high drive dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 (edited) Not 100% sure what you are asking, LL but Daisy is a dog who goes into drive peak very easily, I know that I would never get the reliability or 'spark' I want if I don't train in drive. I would never hold her focus over a scent without drive training. Edited May 4, 2009 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I think drive is or can be different from excitement. My dogs in drive do not look excited. I wouldn't try and teach a dog something if it was going nutso. Unless I need the excitement to teach the dog the thing! So depends! lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 Not 100% sure what you are asking, LL Of course you are not sure LOL, as I am trying desperately to think of the right questions to ask. Hopeless me. OK...I will try again. Do you find drive or clicker training easier to condition/teach CALMNESS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Not 100% sure what you are asking, LL Of course you are not sure LOL, as I am trying desperately to think of the right questions to ask. Hopeless me. OK...I will try again. Do you find drive or clicker training easier to condition/teach CALMNESS? Ok well I'm a total novice when it comes to training so I am only speaking about my dog - but I would get better focus in training when training in drive. I think this better focus and increased eagerness to comply with my command helps Daisy learn better. If she's not training in drive it is much easier for her to get distracted and go into drive just by scenting so the ability to train well is decreased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 Not 100% sure what you are asking, LL Of course you are not sure LOL, as I am trying desperately to think of the right questions to ask. Hopeless me. OK...I will try again. Do you find drive or clicker training easier to condition/teach CALMNESS? Ok well I'm a total novice when it comes to training so I am only speaking about my dog - but I would get better focus in training when training in drive. I think this better focus and increased eagerness to comply with my command helps Daisy learn better. If she's not training in drive it is much easier for her to get distracted and go into drive just by scenting so the ability to train well is decreased. Great. My dogs do not tend to become distracted when working. Mind you their control at long distances can be suspect!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Great. My dogs do not tend to become distracted when working. Mind you their control at long distances can be suspect!!! Ah, for Daisy 'working' is putting her nose on the ground scenting is a like a drug she is addicted to. Before I started drive training we would go to obedience club each week and she would do a sit/stay and would stretch her neck out to try and scent without breaking the stay! She would have moments of great focus but it wasn't consistent and what I could offer was not as high value as the smell that was on the ground. Because I was constantly competing with her urge to scent, she wouldn't learn as quickly, because the focus wasn't there enough... if that makes sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Just my experiences with Darcy - I've found there is such thing as too high when learning something. I'm happy for her to be high as she wants to be while working on a semi-established behaviour. But if she's in that state with unfamiliar work or something we've done very little of, then she can be a bit too nutty and in front of herself. It's also where she starts to throw behaviours at me in desperation of trying to get her reward. At that point we normally go work on something she does know until we've taken a bit of the edge off her and we can get a little more brain activity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 (edited) Are you equating calmness with self control? Because they're not quite the same in my opinion or at least with my dog! With my dog at the moment during drive training she will be quivering in anticipation of the tug whilst holding position and her eyes are so intense and wide in concentration, so I don't think that's training calmness but rather self control IMO! We are in early stages of drive training but she responds much quicker to commands given during drive training than when using clicker training style (I use "yes" instead of clicker). Drive training to me is getting the dog to stop reacting with its limbic system ie flight or fight, reacting subconsciously and getting that dog to learn to respond to another trigger ie handler, so it can learn to overcome that limbic reaction and respond to the handler's command. ETA: I know what I want to say in my head but can't put it into words to explain it properly. Edited May 4, 2009 by Jigsaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 (edited) Are you equating calmness with self control? Because they're not quite the same in my opinion or at least with my dog! With my dog at the moment during drive training she will be quivering in anticipation of the tug whilst holding position and her eyes are so intense and wide in concentration, so I don't think that's training calmness but rather self control IMO! We are in early stages of drive training but she responds much quicker to commands given during drive training than when using clicker training style (I use "yes" instead of clicker). Drive training to me is getting the dog to stop reacting with its limbic system ie flight or fight, reacting subconsciously and getting that dog to learn to respond to another trigger ie handler, so it can learn to overcome that limbic reaction and respond to the handler's command.ETA: I know what I want to say in my head but can't put it into words to explain it properly. I think I know what you're getting at Jigsaw in regards to the difference between self control and calmness. I wouldn't train for calmness necessarily but focus and self control. I see drive training as putting the control back in and getting the dog to be able to have that self control/focus when their brain would normally go into that instinctive drive peak, where they aren't quite so capable of rational thought or able to use their brain constructively (in terms of learning/training). If that makes any sense Edited May 4, 2009 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I do next to no teaching while in prey drive. I do it with food. My dog was frothing from the mouth while in a high drive recently, so learning anything would have been out of the question. I use the prey drive to enhance the results, and food drive before hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I think I know what you're getting at Jigsaw in regards to the difference between self control and calmness. I wouldn't train for calmness necessarily but focus and self control. I see drive training as putting the control back in and getting the dog to be able to have that self control/focus when their brain would normally go into that instinctive drive peak, where they aren't quite so capable of rational thought or able to use their brain constructively (in terms of learning/training). If that makes any sense Thanks Huski that's much closer to what was in my head! Dogdude - I find that this method works best for me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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