Please - No More Pee On The Carpet!

[muffinmclay]

I need help! My 12 week old pup just doesn't seem to want to be toilet trained. I've been doing everything by the book - take him outside every 1/2 hour to 3/4 hour, wait patiently, reward and praise when he goes (we keep bits of cooked sausage in the fridge which he loves and ONLY gets for peeing outside), and so the cycle continues. Unfortunately, he seems to do a little pee outside, then 10-15 mins after we come back inside, he sneaks away and pees on the carpet. It doesn't matter how long i stand outside for, he still goes inside. I"ve stood out there for 20 mins, waiting for him to pee for a second time so he won't do it inside, but it makes no difference. When he does it inside, i point to it and talk in a stern voice (never yell, never rub nose in) and then take him outside to the grass and use my happy voice.

What am I doing wrong? We've had him for 4 weeks now and it doesn't seem to be getting any easier than the first day!

[Pockets]

Is he peeing on the same spot everytime??? if the sent is still there he may just be going back to that same spot, If so I would restrict access to that area all together when he is inside and also give that area a very good clean that will remove the smell from the carpet (*hint* just because you cant smell the pee in the carpet doesnt mean he cant)

[Teebs]

is the dog crate trained?

My dog i got when he was 8 weeks old was fully trained by the time he was 12 weeks, and never once weed inside (actually, the only time he has been to the loo was when he was really sick, he then spent 3 days on a drip at the vets )

[muffinmclay]

We've semi-crate trained him, in that he goes into the crate to sleep at night and sometimes during the day if I can't watch him, such as when i'm cooking dinner. Otherwise, he has a bed in the lounge room where he will go.

And he isn't peeing in the same spot every time, he likes to mix it up and pretty much goes anywhere!

[VJB]

Are you giving him the sausage treat once you are back inside, or taking it outside with you?. The reward has to be immediate, but generally happy praising in high pitched voice usually gets the message across. There is a product on the market called Urine Off that breaks away the enzymes in urine so that it can completely get rid of the smell. It may be worth getting some, and following the instructions. I've heard that normal cleaning solutions can sometimes leave a smell which encourages them to pee

It's a frustration stage to go through, but you will get there in the end, and when you look back it will have seemed such a short time really,,,, just annoying when your in the thick of it.

[Teebs]

where are you when he goes?

My dogs were never allowed in the house without my eyes on them. If i couldnt watch 100% of the time, they were crated. I could always tell just before they were going to wee, and would race them outside before they went on the floor.

when they were in the crate (well, shouldnt use the word WERE as they both still do it now and they are 4 and almost 6!) if they started to cry, or move around, i would take them out to the loo

[Erny]

I need help! My 12 week old pup just doesn't seem to want to be toilet trained. I've been doing everything by the book - take him outside every 1/2 hour to 3/4 hour, wait patiently, reward and praise when he goes (we keep bits of cooked sausage in the fridge which he loves and ONLY gets for peeing outside), and so the cycle continues.

I didn't use such 'high value' food treat rewards, although admittedly any food was good enough for my boy when he was a wee pup. I never made a point of bringing to his attention the fact that I had any food either, as that in itself could make him want to hurry up enough to not complete a 'wee'. Perhaps this is what your pup is doing?

Also, when are you praising him and at what intensity? Make sure you use a very quiet, low level/soft praise until he's finished urinating. Some pups are actually better if you don't say anything at all until the very second they've finished the stream of urination as they so easily become distracted by it. In the very early days with my boy I kept my praise for the end bit, because any murmur from me had his mind off the job and him running back over in excitement for the treat.

Unfortunately, he seems to do a little pee outside, then 10-15 mins after we come back inside, he sneaks away and pees on the carpet.

This bit is where you're not quite "by the book". How come he gets to "sneak away"? Keep him in your sight - to make this easier I set up my boy's "adult size" crate (one that I had for when he was grown) and I attached his puppy play pen in such a fashion as to form a 'yard'. I surfaced the floor of the yard with waterproof tarp. Although I tried for no accidents (the more accidents inside, the longer house-training will take to accomplish), at least if there was to be one, he was not developing a substrate preference for carpet. His crate/pen combo was where he went when I needed some peace (eg. for eating my dinner) or when I needed to be distracted from him (eg. when I was cooking; having a shower; toilet; etc.) Note : the crate/pen was always a 'happy place' to be and he often received a treat in there, and sometimes a little play with a ball or some such. He always happily and willingly (and when it came to sleep times, quite voluntarily) went into his crate, so please don't use it as any form of punishment. He was out of his crate/pen more than he was in, but when he was out, my eye was on him and I made a point of knowing where he was and what he was up to.

I"ve stood out there for 20 mins, waiting for him to pee for a second time so he won't do it inside, but it makes no difference.

Twenty minutes, in the very early days, isn't necessarily very long. In the first several days of his toilet training, it was nothing for me to be outside waiting for a minimum of half an hour - and sometimes longer. The trick is to take your pup out when you are reasonably certain a pee is imminent. It won't take so long then. And when you're outside, be quiet (ie boring). And don't pay your pup any attention. I did encourage my pup to sniff areas where I knew he had 'been' just previously - the smell enourages them to let down their bladders.

When he does it inside, i point to it and talk in a stern voice (never yell, never rub nose in) ...

I wouldn't. Doing this is still paying attention to your pup and for some, ANY attention is appreciated. I found that cleaning up in the absence of the pup was the best. That way, the ONLY time he received attention for toileting was when he did it outside.

... and then take him outside to the grass and use my happy voice.

When are you using your "happy voice"?

Edited April 27, 2009 by Erny

[poodle proud]

Until our pup is big enough to go outside every time on her own we have a mat that she can pee on with a piece of lino underneath so it doesnt go through to the floor. We have two the same and one gets washed daily so we cant smell it but as others have said it still holds that scent and so she heads straight for it to do both wees and poos if we havent been able to get her outside. It is slowly being moved closer to the back door so that she will end up going outside every time anyway. She's already getting the picture and is starting to stand by the back door when she wants to go.

I know everyone says that you should take them outside every time but if you arent there (working, out, or even in the bathroom yourself!) there can still be accidents. And like you I have stood out there for half an hour and no pee and 5 minutes back inside and she goes. But at least in those times she went on the mat. I would rather my pup pee in one spot inside than go anywhere and everywhere. We got my older dog as an adult and he had some housetraining issues but as soon as we installed a dog door we lured him with some treats to teach him how to use it and he has never looked back. I have no doubt this pup will be the same. We just have to wait til she gets a bit fatter and a bit taller and can get down the stairs to the backyard safely

And I dont tell her off for going inside or if she misses the mark. I just clean it without making a fuss. Although not easy when she tries to eat whatever Im cleaning it up with

For accidents I dilute biozet washing powder in cold water (hot water destroys the pee smell-killing enzymes) in a spray bottle and spray it where she pees. I use another damp cloth to rinse the carpet a bit and use a towel to absorb the excess and then let it dry. Smell and doggy scent goes and dog is not enticed to pee there. Not a training solution I realise but as others have said it may at least stop your pup peeing twice in that same area. And at around $10 for 2kg thats a lot of anti-pee spray for your buck!

Hope things improve.

[Odin-Genie]

I never let my puppies in the living area unsupervised till they were completely toilet trained.

In your case, I think the smell of the pee is on the carpet which is encouraging your pup to go there. Use Urine off spray as suggested by vjb and restrict access to that area. Worked wonders for me.

[Starkehre]

Hi muffinclay, I understand how frustrating this must be for you.

However, the longer you keep allowing puppy to pee on the carpet, the harder and longer it will be to train himout of it. If you were vigilient, he would not be able to sneak away.

If it was me, while you are not playing with him directly, training him or having him outside I would be crating him. I know it is really hard to keep such a close eye on them, but this is where your crate will come in really handy. It does not have to be for sleep only. There is nothing wrong with him learning some quiet confinement times and times he can have a quiet game in his crate on his own.

It sounds to me like he is either confused.

Back to basics.

Look at it this way, every time he manages to pee where you don't want him to, then you have trained him to do this, unfortunately and inadvertently.

If he pees inside, clean it up, (without puppy watching you) and realise that you have let him and yourself down again. It is not his fault. I am not trying to sound harsh. Just trying to explain that if we allow an accident before the pup is toilet trained, it is our doing. Set yourself up for a win. Work the situation so he cannot pee in the house.

At 12 weeks of age, provided he is well, which it sounds as though he is, he should be able to hold on for quite a long time. I suggest less frequency with the empties, maybe every 2 hrs during the day. He should be well and truely holding on all night by now.

Good luck.

Edited cause I always think of something I want to add later.

Edited April 27, 2009 by dyzney

[sas]

I haven't read what others have said yet but from what you have said...your puppy sneaks away from you to pee and doesn't tend to pee when you take it outside would indicate to me that at some point you have scared the puppy when it has made an error with toileting inside and so now he thinks you don't like it to pee where you can see it.

I would suggest you just give the toileting command outside and you walk back inside and close the door and watch from a point the puppy can't see you and then open the door and give verbal praise if puppy goes toilet.

And when inside never let puppy sneak away from you.

Edited April 28, 2009 by sas

[lappiemum]

Hi muffinclay-

its true that some cleaning products contain ingredients that actually make the smell like a good place to go.....! My suggestion is to persever (there are some good behavioural suggestions in this thread) but to clean up any accidents with a product like unrine off - its costs about $19 for a spary bottle from your local vet or good petsupplies store - it breaks down the enzyems in the urine that makes the area smell like a good place to leave puppie puddles. Just spray it on - worked a treat for us!

[Sandra777]

I haven't read what others have said yet but from what you have said...your puppy sneaks away from you to pee and doesn't tend to pee when you take it outside would indicate to me that at some point you have scared the puppy when it has made an error with toileting inside and so now he thinks you don't like it to pee inside.

I would suggest you just give the toileting command outside and you walk back inside and close the door and watch from a point the puppy can't see you and then open the door and give verbal praise if puppy goes toilet.

And when inside never let puppy sneak away from you.

I go with this one

Also - take the pup outside and praise him for peeing, bring him inside then 10 minutes later take him back outside again........... I have met pups who like to do serial pees, I think you've got one of those.

[Dogsfevr]

Its called habit.It has been allowed so it seems normal.

You now the up will sneak off & pee so you need to be one step ahead.

The routine is.Pup outside,pups pees,pu inside for treat then pup sneaks off & pees.

Many people dont want to stand outside so any pee is considered good enough but for pups who get distracted or now the reward just requires a basic squat it can all go pear shaped.

Take pup out ,allow to pee,Good puppy come inside & then go straight out again.

[puggy_puggy]

Block the carpeted areas off untill he can be trusted.

[W Sibs]

Block the carpeted areas off untill he can be trusted.

agreed... only allowed in carpeted area if only supervised!

[Bindii]

Fletcher was doing this up until last wednesday (Facebook told me so, very excited status update)

Almost word for word what you're saying. Then last week, he just.. stopped it. He grew up. He snapped. He started to scratch at the door, did a nice long wee, came in side. Only 2 accidents inside the house, right near the door when we've missed his requests to go outside (ie, i was in the shower once, and in the toilet myself the other time haha)

Fletcher is fully crate trained and holds on over night, never gone in his crate - been like this since night 2. But i don't crate during the day. Everyone has their different ways of training etc. I'm positive it works, just didn't want him crated in the house with me home. We had accidents which i would describe as him 'sneaking' away to do, - it's so impossible to use DOL and watch everything a puppy does

.... I say it's up to you. If you've truly had enough, crate training seems to be the way to go... If you continue as you are a little longer, cleaning all wee with a good product like UrineOff, he'll grow up. Perhaps over night like Fletcher did? He's 13.5 weeks old now, so when he 'snapped', just a little older than yours.

Edited April 28, 2009 by Bindii

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Also, when are you praising him and at what intensity? Make sure you use a very quiet, low level/soft praise until he's finished urinating. Some pups are actually better if you don't say anything at all until the very second they've finished the stream of urination as they so easily become distracted by it. In the very early days with my boy I kept my praise for the end bit, because any murmur from me had his mind off the job and him running back over in excitement for the treat.

this bit is really important. when i first got my puppy i would praise her a lot when she peed. as soon as she squated i would say "good girl" in a high pitched voice.

well i found out that my particular puppy didn't need such enthusiastic praise and what i was doing was distracting her from the weeing.

i lowered the volume and the tone and frequency and more importantly, i didn't praise until she had finished weeing.

this fixed the problem.

also be a bit careful when you give the treat and make sure it isn't too high value. you might have a very clever pup who has worked out that if he drips a wee he gets a treat. maybe only give him a treat when he has stopped peeing. maybe even wait to make sure he really has finished, then give the treat.

it might also help to wait a few minutes after he has finished weeing before you bring him back inside.

[muffinmclay]

Thank you to everyone for your advice. We've gone back to basics and have started from scratch. Unfortunately it isn't suitable for me to cordon off our carpeted areas as 99% of our house is carpet, and i'm not a fan of putting him in the crate during the day when we are at home, so i've been watching him like a hawk and taking him outside every hour on the hour. That said, I thought we were doing well yesterday and last night, but then this morning when I woke i took him outside for a wee and nothing! Not a drop. I thought this was a bit strange, seeing as he'd gone all night without one, so I checked his crate and he'd done a giant wee right in the middle of his bedding! What the? I'm going with the theory that he must have needed to go during the night and just couldn't hold it, and I didn't hear him calling out, because otherwise wouldn't he have moved as far away from his bedding as possible (not that there is much room to move in the crate)?

I've just toilet trained my 2 yr old daughter and i'm not sure which is more frustrating!!

[Erny]

What time did puppy 'go to bed' and what time the next morning was he taken out to the toilet (even though there was nothing to be done)?