stormie Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Candida is not the same as malassezia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Tomas I am saying that in order for a cell the size of Candida to permeate through the gut there would have to be a physical hole in the gut wall itself - the cells of the gut lining are the ones that do the absorption. Since candida cannot enter a cell they would have to get into the blood stream through physical holes that puncture right through the layers that make up the intestinal wall which in the scheme of things is quite thick, and then through the walls of the vessels. If this was occuring there would be telltale signs of blood in the fecal matter and extreme pain to the animal. I'm not discounting it I just mention its a pretty extreme thing to just happen without major symptoms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Tomas I am saying that in order for a cell the size of Candida to permeate through the gut there would have to be a physical hole in the gut wall itself - the cells of the gut lining are the ones that do the absorption. Since candida cannot enter a cell they would have to get into the blood stream through physical holes that puncture right through the layers that make up the intestinal wall which in the scheme of things is quite thick, and then through the walls of the vessels. If this was occuring there would be telltale signs of blood in the fecal matter and extreme pain to the animal. I'm not discounting it I just mention its a pretty extreme thing to just happen without major symptoms See this is where we debate again,I don't agree that the size has to be huge and there are plenty of dogs who have blood in their stool,not that that would always mean they have Candida. Just saying. But to quote Dr Zoltan P Rona MD, MSc "The leaky gut syndrome is a name given to a very common health disorder in which the basic organic defect (lesion) is an intestinal lining which is more permeable (porous) than normal. The spaces present between the cells of the gut wall allow the entry of toxic material into the blood stream that would, in healthier circumstances, be repelled and eliminated. The gut becomes leaky in the sense that bacteria, fungi, parasites and their toxins, undigested protein, fat and waste normally not absorbed into the bloodstream in the healthy state, pass through a damaged, hyperpermeable, porous or "leaky" gut. This can be verified by special gut permeability urine tests, microscopic examination of the lining of the intestinal wall as well as the bloodstream with phase contrast or darkfield microscopy of living whole blood." This would rebutt your point that there HAS to be a physical hole in the gut. So you have your souces of informationa and I have mine. Tomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 (edited) I've also found a small lump, a bit smaller than size of pinky fingernail, at the top of the patch on his flank that he chews.With thyroid, I googled and it said they tend to put on weight? Diesel has dropped weight. Deciding whether to go to vet about weight issue and small lump or try changing food/shampoo and possibly antihistamines. Kavik a couple of extra questions for you - have you had Diesel since a puppy? How long has he had issues with his skin and from what age? Could you try to take a piccie of the red spot? Also do you have pyohex shampoo? If so you could dilute in a little water and try this on the spot - cause it sounds like a pustule. Why I ask all these questions is cause if from early onset I understand it is more likely to be allergies. PS - Hyperthyroidism is very uncommon in dogs but not unheard of (all symptoms pretty much the same as Hypothyrodism but weight loss rather than weight gain). Edited April 27, 2009 by First Time Puppy Owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted April 27, 2009 Author Share Posted April 27, 2009 I have had Diesel from a puppy. Skin issues have been around for a while, not sure when they started to get bad, but I suspect he's always been prone to it. I'll try to get a pic today of where his skin is icky, and the spot. Just not quite sitting right with me that he should need 5 times as much food as Kaos - he is older than Kaos and not as active, though he is 10kg heavier. Or maybe Kelpies are just better 'doers' than GSDs? And I have increased his food lately and not seeing much result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 (edited) Approx when did you see the problems start - 7-10 mths or older?!?! And how old is Diesel now? Unfortunately GSD along with Goldies are quite prone to skin/allergy issues, yet I personally would suspect there is something else going on with him other than just allergies, cause he is lossing weight yet is still eating heaps. If I was in your position I would be asking for full bloods and asking the vet to do a TSH and T4 test at the same time as well as checking for any other possibilities. Edited April 27, 2009 by First Time Puppy Owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 (edited) ...I would be asking for full bloods and asking the vet to do a TSH and T4 test ... TSH & T4 is not a full thyroid blood panel test though. Edited April 27, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 ...I would be asking for full bloods and asking the vet to do a TSH and T4 test ... TSH & T4 is not a full thyroid blood panel test though. What is the best screen for Thyroid you can get in Aust as Kavik's partner is not willing to spend too much and I know to send it over to Dr Dodds would be $400 plus with the exchange rate as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 (edited) What is the best screen for Thyroid you can get in Aust as Kavik's partner is not willing to spend too much and I know to send it over to Dr Dodds would be $400 plus with the exchange rate as it is. Yes - TSH & T4 is about the best you can get in Australia. I've just had bloods done via Dr. Dodds. $65 (USA) plus $111.00 (AUS) for the FedEx courier. The combo expense is not completely cheap I admit, but certainly not $400 (USA). More like $200 (AUS) total. Oh - and the local Vet fee for drawing the bloods. If the T4 & TSH done out here showed thyroid abnormalities, then yes, perhaps that would be the cheaper way of doing it. (What is the cost vet/pathology combo out here anyway?) But if it showed no abnormalities, IMO it would not necessarily rule out thyroid issues. Edited April 28, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 I've made a vet appt for Thursday, so will enquire about tests then. Vet is going to be sick of all my questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) What is the best screen for Thyroid you can get in Aust as Kavik's partner is not willing to spend too much and I know to send it over to Dr Dodds would be $400 plus with the exchange rate as it is. Yes - TSH & T4 is about the best you can get in Australia. I've just had bloods done via Dr. Dodds. $65 (USA) plus $111.00 (AUS) for the FedEx courier. The combo expense is not completely cheap I admit, but certainly not $400 (USA). Oh I thought it was like $290 for the test - good to know cause I had my boy's T4 level tested last year and want to recheck it later down the track as he test came back at 29. Edit - the T4 was about $46 (cause they could test it there) and $150 to send it to pathology for TSH as it couldn't be done on site, but then again if Kavik is going to get a full blood test for everything possible then it's still worth sending it to the path lab I would think?!?! Edited April 28, 2009 by First Time Puppy Owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Vet is going to be sick of all my questions Bugger it I say - I mean your woofa is not well and you want to get to the bottom of it and they should be greatful to have a pet owner that is seeking out as much info as possible to help their dog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Oh I thought it was like $290 for the test - good to know cause I had my boy's T4 level tested last year and want to recheck it later down the track as he test came back at 29. In amongst the test results I have got, my boy's T4 came in at 2.13 (with the 'reference range' being 0.50 - 3.80). His T3 came in at 48 (with the 'reference range' being 30 - 70). These were just two of the tests of course, but it was reported overall as being excellent. His breed, age, size (and I think, gender and sexual status - eg. neutered or entire) are all taken into account, as the ideal reference range changes with these factors. Out here, I understand the chart for analysis is based mainly (if not totally) on size of dog : ie small, medium, large. Edited April 28, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Edit - the T4 was about $46 (cause they could test it there) and $150 to send it to pathology for TSH as it couldn't be done on site, but then again if Kavik is going to get a full blood test for everything possible then it's still worth sending it to the path lab I would think?!?! So it works out at almost no difference in price in getting the full blood panel test done by Dr. Dodds. I think the difference would end up only being the Vet's consult fee for drawing the bloods. Edited April 28, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 So Erny - what did Dr Dodds say about your boy's test?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 "Thyroid levels are excellent". Of course, there's all the data included in the test results given, but the above was her comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) "Thyroid levels are excellent".Of course, there's all the data included in the test results given, but the above was her comment. So what seems to be the problem with your boy - is it atopy? edit - cause I can't spell today! Edited April 28, 2009 by First Time Puppy Owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I think it is a food intolerance. We're still working on that in an attempt to narrow it down. At least I know that thyroid and autoimmune deficiencies are not playing a part in his problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I think it is a food intolerance. We're still working on that in an attempt to narrow it down. At least I know that thyroid and autoimmune deficiencies are not playing a part in his problems. Agreed - best of luck with the food elimination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I've made a vet appt for Thursday Let us know how you go Kavik! Best of Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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