Skin Problems

[Kavik]

OK well most of you probably know Diesel has skin problems. Vet thinks most likely allergy. It is not a food allergy - we did an elimination diet to test this and he was still as itchy as ever. He has flaky, dandruffy skin, always scratches, and has a patch on his flank which he chews and there is no longer hair there.

It was getting a bit better for a while, but has flared up again. At the moment he is fed Advance and Chicken Frames, with Fish Oil and Evening Primrose oil, and gets bathed in Aloveen (with Malaseb on the flank he chews). He has also dropped weight recently.

Any hints, at least to deal with the flaky skin? He always smells, even shortly after a bath, and it doesn't take long for him to look manky again I was thinking of trialling him in obedience, but may not because of his condition

Edited April 30, 2009 by Kavik

[stormie]

Kavik I'd probably go see a dermatologist. The flaky smelly skin will most likely be secondary to the inflammation from the allergy. Staph infections can make the skin flaky and smelly too. If your vet is sure its allergies, then the derm should be able to give you answers as to what he's allergic to. Or look at having your vet run one or both of the blood tests - SPOT test and Heska Allercept are most commonly done I believe.

Orbit has shocking allergies and when his are really bad, he gets covered in pustules within a day, which then leave the area bald and his skin goes flaky all over. A course of AB's generally helps.

I feel your pain. Orbit can't have fish, so fish oil is out. Aloveen is also out as he reacts to that too, as well as the malaseb and pyohex. One medicated shampoo that I have personally found ok is the Rufus and Coco one. He doesn't get itchy with that and it does help to control the infections. His skin is never perfect though and there isn't a whole lot I can do about it really!

[tomas]

Hi Kavik,

If one of my dogs and those symptoms I would think yeast infection,they are WAY more common than you think. Vets like to tell you that it's allergies,but yeast is so often the culprit.

The grain (sugar ) is feeding the yeast,CANDIDA. I would not feed any carbs. I would feed totally raw or a grain free kibble.

Try this page for info http://secure.nzymes.com/pc/viewContent.asp?idpage=16 If you don't buy this Yeast Kit I would try the following.

I would wash the ears with TrizEdta first ,THEN a medicated ear drop about an hour later for yeast. The Triz gets the ear 'ready' for the medication. I would give a probiotic capsule,the ones that health shops keep in the fridge. But they are not cheap!

I would also wash with Malaseb all over as opposed to Aloveen at all. I would also stop all medicxations,be aware that the first few days can make it seem like things will be worse but it should begin to turn around from there.

You can do all this without seeing your vet,seriously days after giving the probiotic capule you should see less scratching. But it can be a really slow process for healing. You need all the above.

Read the link above it will explain it all better than I can.

GOOD luck! Dogs with skin problems are so upsetting to watch.

Tomas.

OK well most of you probably know Diesel has skin problems. Vet thinks most likely allergy. It is not a food allergy - we did an elimination diet to test this and he was still as itchy as ever. He has flaky, dandruffy skin, always scratches, and has a patch on his flank which he chews and there is no longer hair there.

It was getting a bit better for a while, but has flared up again. At the moment he is fed Advance and Chicken Frames, with Fish Oil and Evening Primrose oil, and gets bathed in Aloveen (with Malaseb on the flank he chews). He has also dropped weight recently.

Any hints, at least to deal with the flaky skin? He always smells, even shortly after a bath, and it doesn't take long for him to look manky again I was thinking of trialling him in obedience, but may not because of his condition

[tomas]

Stormie,see what I said above,I reckon this will help your Orbit. What are you feeding?

Tomas.

Kavik I'd probably go see a dermatologist. The flaky smelly skin will most likely be secondary to the inflammation from the allergy. Staph infections can make the skin flaky and smelly too. If your vet is sure its allergies, then the derm should be able to give you answers as to what he's allergic to. Or look at having your vet run one or both of the blood tests - SPOT test and Heska Allercept are most commonly done I believe.

Orbit has shocking allergies and when his are really bad, he gets covered in pustules within a day, which then leave the area bald and his skin goes flaky all over. A course of AB's generally helps.

I feel your pain. Orbit can't have fish, so fish oil is out. Aloveen is also out as he reacts to that too, as well as the malaseb and pyohex. One medicated shampoo that I have personally found ok is the Rufus and Coco one. He doesn't get itchy with that and it does help to control the infections. His skin is never perfect though and there isn't a whole lot I can do about it really!

[Kavik]

From the website:

Option 2: PREPARING A BAKING SODA RINSE and TOPICAL SPRAY

Using a final rinse of BAKING SODA AND WATER for the pets body after shampooing can be very effective to reduce the overall itchiness and smell. Mix two (2-4) teaspoons of BAKING SODA per gallon of water; make sure to mix it so it completely dissolves.

SPRAY BOTTLE

Mix one (1-2) heaping teaspoons of BAKING SODA with 8 oz. of water. Use this with a spray bottle or cotton ball for the itchy rashes areas. Reports show that it is quite helpful with the overall itchiness, skin problems and inflammation. Soaking a cloth with this baking soda solution and leaving it on the more severely affected areas can be helpful to soothe the skin and reduce inflammation.

This sounds good and doable How long do you reckon you could keep the spray for? Would you have to make a new one up each time? Could you use it between baths to keep them looking/smelling fresher? I gave him a bath today but we are having guests next weekend, trying to think of what I can do to make him look and smell OK for them.

[neatz]

Kavik a friend of mine had an allergy test done on her dog and it came back that he was highly allergic to most types of grasses. If it's within the budget maybe you could try this and blood tests to make sure there isn't anything systemically wrong with your dog.

I would have thought that a yeast infection would have been picked up by skin scrapings/swabs taken at the vets.

I know you said you tried the diet thing already but did you try a low allergy diet? Royal Canin and Hills have them and I have heard they can help.

[Kavik]

But what would finding out he is allergic to grass achieve (it is what I suspect seeing as where his bad spots are)? It's not like I can keep him away from grass! If it turns out he is allergic to almost everything under the sun (someone else here did the test and the dog was allergic to something like 100 things!) what on earth is that going to do except stress me out more? Really, if he is allergic to all that, there is nothing really that can be done right? And I've heard the tests are very expensive.

We did a 6 week elimination diet where he was only on Hills Z/D and nothing else (including no treats) - made little to no difference.

I am tempted to take him to the vet anyway - he has dropped weight and I'm a bit worried about that.

[4 Paws]

I agree with tomas regarding a possible yeast infection.GSD's are very prone to them.One of my gsd's was constantly smelly and itchy and vet put it down to an airborne allergy and put her on medication.Went back in for some more tablets later and another vet mentioned it could possible be a yeast problem and told me to wash in malaseb.This helped heaps and the smell dissapeared.She no longer gets itchy but if I don't wask in malaseb or Hoss Gloss every 2nd hydrobath I notice she gets smelly quite quickly

[tomas]

From the website:

Option 2: PREPARING A BAKING SODA RINSE and TOPICAL SPRAY

Using a final rinse of BAKING SODA AND WATER for the pets body after shampooing can be very effective to reduce the overall itchiness and smell. Mix two (2-4) teaspoons of BAKING SODA per gallon of water; make sure to mix it so it completely dissolves.

SPRAY BOTTLE

Mix one (1-2) heaping teaspoons of BAKING SODA with 8 oz. of water. Use this with a spray bottle or cotton ball for the itchy rashes areas. Reports show that it is quite helpful with the overall itchiness, skin problems and inflammation. Soaking a cloth with this baking soda solution and leaving it on the more severely affected areas can be helpful to soothe the skin and reduce inflammation.

This sounds good and doable How long do you reckon you could keep the spray for? Would you have to make a new one up each time? Could you use it between baths to keep them looking/smelling fresher? I gave him a bath today but we are having guests next weekend, trying to think of what I can do to make him look and smell OK for them.

It would sure last a few days to a week,as an aside I would also buy some distilled water to mix this up with...no point in having any bacteria from the water compliacting things. Would be more shelf stable this way.

Did you see you can use the normal full strength Listerine as well. Apply with a spoge or a spray bottle.

Tomas.

[tomas]

Kavik a friend of mine had an allergy test done on her dog and it came back that he was highly allergic to most types of grasses. If it's within the budget maybe you could try this and blood tests to make sure there isn't anything systemically wrong with your dog.

I would have thought that a yeast infection would have been picked up by skin scrapings/swabs taken at the vets.

I know you said you tried the diet thing already but did you try a low allergy diet? Royal Canin and Hills have them and I have heard they can help.

Funnily enough skin scrapings can seldom pick up yeast,you would think they would.

HOW I know all this is I have the most allergic dog on the planet!

Aftre doing the skin tests he was allergic to everything,I mean EVERYTHING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I switched to raw,learned about how yeast affects them,leaky gut syndrome and how to cure it.

Now I have an 8 year old dog who has not needed meds for over 6 years! His first 2 years of life were awful. Imagine rubbing your face on concrete till it is raw and bleeding,he did this daily,even on prednisone!

Long story short. I would give the yeast route a try and also be aware it could be a thyroid problem,but try yeast first,you can see imporvemnet in days.

Tomas.

[espinay2]

Yep, I would try treating for yeast infection. Feeding a low/no carb diet first up may help.

A rinse with white or apple cider vinegar in the water (as strong as you or he can stand) following the wash can help too - it is very good for treating both yeast and bacteria.

He may also have a secondary bacterial infection. Has the vet put him on antibiotics at any point? Sometimes a good (long and strong) dose can help (dont muck around with a short course it is usually not worth it and just makes it less likely to work next time - it is better to hit it hard if you are going to hit it at all) You can always get a skin scraping done - on the bad patch for instance - to see if bacteria is present and to work out the best antibiotic to use.

The malaseb will dry the skin, so be careful of that. I am not a huge fan I must admit, though have used it in the past once or twice. Take a look at the EQyss Micro-Tek Shampoo and Spray too.

I would also get a full panel blood test done if you haven't already just to check his levels and make sure all is ok and this is not a symptom of something else. Include a full thyroid test. Even if nothing shows up, it will be a good 'benchmark' for later.

[puggy_puggy]

YEAST INFECTION!!!!

Hills Z/D is absolutley crap.!!! Did the same thing as you did Kavik for my boy a few years ago. Itchie all the time, smelt yeasty nearly straight away after bathing, yucky brown wax in ears all of the time and horrible hair. Vets could only suggest cortisone and to try the elmination diet. He was on the Z/D with absolutley nothing else for 6 weeks and it made nooooo difference at all.

Plodded on untill someone told me about BARF feeding. A light went off in my brain when I realised my boy was overloaded in yeast. These days he starts to smell a bit after two weeks without a bath, his hair has actully softened and lengthened and no more yucky ears.

Get your dog off all dry food. Get him off all grains including rice, oats, wheat etc. Get him onto a BARF, RAW or Pr diet. Give his body time to detox but you will see a difference.

We did a 6 week elimination diet where he was only on Hills Z/D and nothing else (including no treats) - made little to no difference.

[KitKat]

The Royal Canin GSD formula doesn't have wheat in it - have you tried that one by chance?

I feel your pain...my Sabre has been going through something very very similar! We are wondering if he's having a reaction to the pumpkin vines tho, but at this point i'm not rulling out much, he is my problem child after all When i head off to work tomorrow i'm going to look at a few of our products and go from there - poor poppets!

Edited April 25, 2009 by KitKat

[tomas]

Yep, I would try treating for yeast infection. Feeding a low/no carb diet first up may help.

A rinse with white or apple cider vinegar in the water (as strong as you or he can stand) following the wash can help too - it is very good for treating both yeast and bacteria.

He may also have a secondary bacterial infection. Has the vet put him on antibiotics at any point? Sometimes a good (long and strong) dose can help (dont muck around with a short course it is usually not worth it and just makes it less likely to work next time - it is better to hit it hard if you are going to hit it at all) You can always get a skin scraping done - on the bad patch for instance - to see if bacteria is present and to work out the best antibiotic to use.

The malaseb will dry the skin, so be careful of that. I am not a huge fan I must admit, though have used it in the past once or twice. Take a look at the EQyss Micro-Tek Shampoo and Spray too.

I would also get a full panel blood test done if you haven't already just to check his levels and make sure all is ok and this is not a symptom of something else. Include a full thyroid test. Even if nothing shows up, it will be a good 'benchmark' for later.

Brilliant. I just came back on to recommend the Micxro Tek Shampoo and Spray and you beat me to it. Also the other ideas are exactly right. IF you have to use antibiotics,ony a long course will do,I think Kefalexin (sp) is best? But certainly if you are doing antibiotics give a probiotic capsule.

Tomas.

[Monah]

My girl is doing fantastic on an allergy vaccine,( she had skin tests, and is allergic to grasses and many trees, so this is what you do to fix it) you need to see a dermatologist, BUT, mine does not have a yeast problem and has never had a 'smell'.

I guess it depends on exactly what the problem is. Good luck with it all

[Kavik]

Haven't tried the Royal Canin GSD formula - might give it a go, been recommended by a few people. Just difficult as I generally give all the dogs the same dry food, OH not all that keen on getting something different for Diesel.

I have tried BARF, actually made no difference and I had problems keeping weight on him (hard at the best of times to keep weight on him!). At the moment he is getting 5 times as much dry food as Kaos. Kaos is 20kg and Diesel is 30kg.

We have done antibiotics before and it does help if it is a long course. Sometimes cortisone is given as well. He still itches on cortisone but not as much as without.

[tomas]

Haven't tried the Royal Canin GSD formula - might give it a go, been recommended by a few people. Just difficult as I generally give all the dogs the same dry food, OH not all that keen on getting something different for Diesel.

I have tried BARF, actually made no difference and I had problems keeping weight on him (hard at the best of times to keep weight on him!). At the moment he is getting 5 times as much dry food as Kaos. Kaos is 20kg and Diesel is 30kg.

We have done antibiotics before and it does help if it is a long course. Sometimes cortisone is given as well. He still itches on cortisone but not as much as without.

I feed Barf too and hear what you say. You just need to feed MORE calories,have you tried Green tripe,mine eat buckets daily and I can finally not see their ribs!

Monah made a good point a few posts ago,although my allergic boy never had a smell ,yet months down the track a yeast infection was confirmed,we had till that time been treating his reaction to allergies.

Tomas.

[puggy_puggy]

I have tried BARF, actually made no difference and I had problems keeping weight on him (hard at the best of times to keep weight on him!). At the moment he is getting 5 times as much dry food as Kaos. Kaos is 20kg and Diesel is 30kg.

For how long and what exaclty did you feed?

[Kavik]

Not sure how long, it was a while, several months, maybe even a year? It was a while ago, he is now 5. Fed chicken frames, livers, giblets, occasionally heart when I could find it (not sure what animal that was from), eggs, sardines, vegies and fruit (variety including apples, pears, bananas, celery, lettuce, other stuff I can't remember )

[tomas]

Not sure how long, it was a while, several months, maybe even a year? It was a while ago, he is now 5. Fed chicken frames, livers, giblets, occasionally heart when I could find it (not sure what animal that was from), eggs, sardines, vegies and fruit (variety including apples, pears, bananas, celery, lettuce, other stuff I can't remember )

I would stay away from most veggies and fruit,too much sugar,some veggies are o.k mind you. I use Green tripe and muscle meat for fibre.

There does not seem to be alot of fat in what you described above,fat is where they get their energy from,what about lamb as a good choice. Fatty and meaty brisket etc.

Mine get a meaty and fatty chicken carcass (not a back,the whole carcass) for breakfast with sardines or a few organic eggs.

Dinner is always about 500g - 750g of Green Tripe with beef or lamb meat as well,maybe 200g and a beef or lamb brisket which is about 450g. They get a Mix of Beef,liver,heart and kidney 2-3 times a week in that night meal instead of the straight muscle meat. I also sometimes give chciken livers with their breakfast meal.

My guys weigh 25-40kgs so you can see they eat a lot more. Mind you they get 2-3 hours off lead running a day,everyday.

Some days I add fish oil or cod liver oil as well,especially after particularly hard runs. Have also done virgin coconut oil up to 4 T at a time but this can also cause thr runs,so start with a small amount if using this.

Tomas.