What Should I Do?

[misspup]

Oscar is 16 weeks old and has been attending puppy pre school for 3 weeks, the trouble is he is the smallest in his class, he is a cavalier king charles and every week he ends up getting a nip from one of the other pups. Monday night at class I noticed that he was becoming submissive and running away from the other pups or just watching them play from under a chair, I am so worried that puppy pre school might of done more damage than good.

I pointed this out to the Teacher who said he needs to socialise more with other dogs, the trouble is I dont know of anyone who has a dog we can visit, and as he still has to get his 3 vacaccination this week we cant go visit parks etc.

So my question is, should we go for the last week of puppy preschool next week or do you think it might be more harmful than good?

Oh I just want to add, hes not a timid dog normally, he is wonderful with kids and people.

Maree

[Paganman]

I reckon you should find another puppy school good puppy schools dont have free for alls where bigger pups can bully smaller ones.Does the school have a qualified trainer or is it just a vet nurse.I wouldnt be going back if I was you this sort of thing could make your pup frightened or aggressive to other dogs when shes older.From what Ive read on dogz puppy schools are a dime a dozen these days and a lot of them dont have a clue about what theyre doing theres good ones and a lot of bad ones out there some of them are just there to make extra money for the vet and get you to buy there products

[misspup]

I reckon you should find another puppy school good puppy schools dont have free for alls where bigger pups can bully smaller ones.Does the school have a qualified trainer or is it just a vet nurse.I wouldnt be going back if I was you this sort of thing could make your pup frightened or aggressive to other dogs when shes older.From what Ive read on dogz puppy schools are a dime a dozen these days and a lot of them dont have a clue about what theyre doing theres good ones and a lot of bad ones out there some of them are just there to make extra money for the vet and get you to buy there products

Hi

The Teacher is a qualified trainer but there are 7 pups in the class and 3 are larger breeds, I really dont want to take him back for another bad experience

[Paganman]

I reckon you should find another puppy school good puppy schools dont have free for alls where bigger pups can bully smaller ones.Does the school have a qualified trainer or is it just a vet nurse.I wouldnt be going back if I was you this sort of thing could make your pup frightened or aggressive to other dogs when shes older.From what Ive read on dogz puppy schools are a dime a dozen these days and a lot of them dont have a clue about what theyre doing theres good ones and a lot of bad ones out there some of them are just there to make extra money for the vet and get you to buy there products

Hi

The Teacher is a qualified trainer but there are 7 pups in the class and 3 are larger breeds, I really dont want to take him back for another bad experience

Even if trainers qualified I still dont think he should let bigger pups bully smaller ones.If it was me I wouldnt go back.Im not in Sydnet but there people on here who are and theyll probably have some suggestions where you could take her.

[claireybell]

I agree with Paganman. Try a different puppy school or even a dog club once your puppy has had all its vaccinations. When I took my puppy to school there was big and little pups. The big pups were allowed to have free time togther and once they were back on lead the little pups got free time.

[Karelea Aussies]

I would find another puppy preschool where they interact but not play. The one I took my pup to was more about basic obedience and socialisation. Although there was lots of interaction they were not allowed to play and were always kept on leash. Sounds like yours is more of a play date lol. :rolleyes:

[Ellie1]

I think trust your instincts, if you are not happy then dont go back.

[Gayle.]

Don't compile bad experience on top of bad experience. It does you no good and it certainly isn't doing your puppy any good.

Once he's had his final vaccination, why not see if there's a community obedience club local to you and have a chat with someone there about puppy obedience classes.

Our local club has them as part of their regular Saturday classes but the puppies only lasts 30 minutes and it's made up of some basic obedience (sit, stand, walk nicely on leash) and lots of *on-leash* soclialising.

The puppies also get to meet lots of other dogs on their own terms, and always on leash, before and after class in a situation where you always have control.

Once you've comleted the puppy classes or your pup is 6 months old, it's up to you whether you continue on with more formal obedience. We did and we absolutely love it. My dogs get very excited when they realise the car is headed towards the obedience club, cos they always have a fun time there.

In the meantime, get him out meeting people, getting used to traffic noises, household sounds, as many experiences as possible.

[Dogsfevr]

The first ring to remember is cavies are tough little critters & can play with the big boys well BUT at this age the trainer should be using this experience as a learning tool for all & it sounds like the trainer isnt.

Many puppy schools arent run for the betterment of socializing.Personally we dont recommend it UNLESS there is something special about the way the class is held.

Most end up a free for all where pups learn that playing is norm,yes they need to play but they also dont teach you how to switch pup off & you then here about the people who have trouble because all there dog thinks is another dog we must play.

Make sure your not pandering to your pup or instilling fear into it because your worried.This is often a bigger problem.

But like others if you gut says your not been listened too most importantly then dont go back.Instructors should be taking on board all of your concerns & with only 7 dogs it shouldnt be hard too or work with

[bozthepup]

The instructor should be controlling things a little better. Our personal experience was that most of the class was a free for all, which surprised us a little bit but of course we know better now - hindsight is wonderful. We had a lab so obviously no size issues there, but there were two tiny little pups, a puggle and a silkie who were pretty terrified at first. The puggle totally came out of his shell and gave as good as he got after 2 weeks or so but the silkie was scared, and to her credit, the instructor tried to keep an eye on that.

You might want to make enquiries for another pup school in your area, and use the experience you have to gleaned through this to question the instructor before signing up so they know your personal situation. Where are you in Sydney ? Some places offer 'junior school' which is the next step to puppy school but pre obedience.

An alternative, especially if your training is already going well at home, is to look at the local obedience clubs (if vaccinations are good, I think someone mentioned this earlier). At 16 weeks, maybe the pup is moving beyond pup school.

[Red Fox]

During our puppy classes the dogs were allowed to play offlead for approx 1/2 the class. The other half was spent learning basic obedience and being given information.

Big puppies played together while small puppies were kept on lead and on laps, and then they swapped over.

It was good for socialisation and bite inhabition but the downside is now my dog thinks that the vet is a playground :rolleyes:

[misspup]

The first ring to remember is cavies are tough little critters & can play with the big boys well BUT at this age the trainer should be using this experience as a learning tool for all & it sounds like the trainer isnt.

Many puppy schools arent run for the betterment of socializing.Personally we dont recommend it UNLESS there is something special about the way the class is held.

Most end up a free for all where pups learn that playing is norm,yes they need to play but they also dont teach you how to switch pup off & you then here about the people who have trouble because all there dog thinks is another dog we must play.

Make sure your not pandering to your pup or instilling fear into it because your worried.This is often a bigger problem.

But like others if you gut says your not been listened too most importantly then dont go back.Instructors should be taking on board all of your concerns & with only 7 dogs it shouldnt be hard too or work with

Thanks for all the replies, I think I might give the last class a miss, he is doing so well at home with the training and I will look into an obedience club as some of you suggested.

I am in Campbelltown, does anyone know of a good club out here?

[luvsdogs]

The only one I can see in that area is Macarthur Dog Training Club. I don't know how good it is, they say they use motivational methods.

http://macarthurdtc.org/about.html#top

[tez]

I know how you feel and i think if you can get some advice sooner rather than later then you will be better for it.

Our last dog went to puppy school at the local vets and spent the whole time hideing under the chair. We progressed to a local dog obedience and while she was great at obedience she was shocking at interacting with other dogs. We were continually told she would get better and that we had to show her who was boss!!!! Well she didnt get better she got worse and we ended up taking her to a dog psychologist to find out what we should do when she was 7 months old. Sadly we found out that the dog obedience was worsening her fear aggression as they (we) used a check collar which increased her fearfulness.

As much as we wanted to do the right thing for her, we found that we had actually been doing the worst for her and it took many many months of positive reinforcement training at a specialised dog school to help but not cure her.

She was a wonderful dog with us and other people and cats for 14+ years but she never interacted with other dogs due to this fear aggression.

I would advise you to get your dog professionally assessed now so you can get and follow the right advice!

[Jen21]

I had a similar experience with puppy school, where my puppy was scared of all of the others, so I only let him play with one other dog at a time in the socialisation, and would be very nearby, so could take him out if the situation got uncomfortable for him. I always used his tail as my cue, the minute it was between his legs, he was frightened so I would grab him.

As he's grown older (he's now 6 months), he has got more and more confident with other dogs, he is walked with 2 other dogs once a week, and has had some play dates in the park, and he loves them.

So don't worry things can get better if you are careful with what you expose him/her to. Follow your gut and don't take him back to that class, and look for a best option for socialisation.

(By the way, there's a new site where you can meet other dog owners and get your pups together for play dates, socialisation, walks, etc. It's a great solution if you don't have the money/time/space for 2 dogs, but want your dog to get regular contact with other friendly dogs.

http://www.dogtree.com.au

[misspup]

I had a similar experience with puppy school, where my puppy was scared of all of the others, so I only let him play with one other dog at a time in the socialisation, and would be very nearby, so could take him out if the situation got uncomfortable for him. I always used his tail as my cue, the minute it was between his legs, he was frightened so I would grab him.

As he's grown older (he's now 6 months), he has got more and more confident with other dogs, he is walked with 2 other dogs once a week, and has had some play dates in the park, and he loves them.

So don't worry things can get better if you are careful with what you expose him/her to. Follow your gut and don't take him back to that class, and look for a best option for socialisation.

(By the way, there's a new site where you can meet other dog owners and get your pups together for play dates, socialisation, walks, etc. It's a great solution if you don't have the money/time/space for 2 dogs, but want your dog to get regular contact with other friendly dogs.

http://www.dogtree.com.au

Thanks so much for all the advice everyone, hes such a lovely dog and I dont want to see him become an agressive dog from being scared.

I will look up the link you gave me and also the dog obedience at macarthur.

Thanks again

Maree

[misspup]

Hi

I just want to let you know what has happened, I went to the vet and got Oscars last needle and spoke to the vet about what happened, he agreed that Oscar dosent need a bad experience but also pointed out that I shouldnt miss out on the last lesson, either go on my own or go with Oscar and keep him on the lead.

So I rang the Trainer, I thought she really needs to know how I am feeling and its a bit unfair to just not turn up without giving her some feedback and that way she can learn from this experience as well. She was fantastic, she would like me to come to the last lesson and bring Oscar and she said she will keep all the dogs on leads, and maybe let Oscar off with one passive Dog, believe it or not but his friend and passive dog is a Rotty, hes such a lovely dog and very gentle. Anyway she also invited me to come to as many of the other puppy classes as I like (no extra charge) and now that she is aware of Oscar and his problem, she will make sure its a positive time for him and only associate him with small dogs until he is happy to move on.She also has one other cavvie in one class that we can meet and maybe set up a play date with them.

So I am going on Monday with the restraints put in place and I hope all is a positive experience for Oscar.

Thanks again for all your replies, if I didnt get the support here I may not of followed my gut instinct and who knows what may of happened.,

Maree

[Gretel]

Hi

I just want to let you know what has happened, I went to the vet and got Oscars last needle and spoke to the vet about what happened, he agreed that Oscar dosent need a bad experience but also pointed out that I shouldnt miss out on the last lesson, either go on my own or go with Oscar and keep him on the lead.

So I rang the Trainer, I thought she really needs to know how I am feeling and its a bit unfair to just not turn up without giving her some feedback and that way she can learn from this experience as well. She was fantastic, she would like me to come to the last lesson and bring Oscar and she said she will keep all the dogs on leads, and maybe let Oscar off with one passive Dog, believe it or not but his friend and passive dog is a Rotty, hes such a lovely dog and very gentle. Anyway she also invited me to come to as many of the other puppy classes as I like (no extra charge) and now that she is aware of Oscar and his problem, she will make sure its a positive time for him and only associate him with small dogs until he is happy to move on.She also has one other cavvie in one class that we can meet and maybe set up a play date with them.

So I am going on Monday with the restraints put in place and I hope all is a positive experience for Oscar.

Thanks again for all your replies, if I didnt get the support here I may not of followed my gut instinct and who knows what may of happened.,

Maree

That sounds like an excellent outcome

[Jen21]

That does sound like a great outcome

I think you should always listen to your gut, and do things in the best interests of your pup - so you have totally done the right thing

[sandgrubber]

Thanks for all the replies, I think I might give the last class a miss, he is doing so well at home with the training and I will look into an obedience club as some of you suggested.

In my experience, obedience clubs vary greatly. Some are for obediance competition, and not much good otherwise. Some have a rounded approach but are social events more than dog training. Cavs are not usually problem dogs, maybe a bit timid, but not agro or destructive. You might do as well using your own good sense. Try a few dog exercise areas and look for a play group situation that has a lot of smallish unaggressive dogs. In my books, the main reason for puppy pre-school is to give the puppy buyer who hasn't had a lot of experience with pups some added rescources and experience to draw on when it comes to dealing with whatever problems arise. Some classes may not be so good for some dogs.

Product labeling ain't so good when it comes to dog training in Australia