poodle proud Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 HELP! Our 5.5 month old toy poodle pup has recently started growling and snapping ferociously at the older dog and my OH. It happens when she is sleeping and you either try to move her or if she is lying next to the other dog and he goes to lie a bit on her (like she often does to him) Today she got on the lounge next to my OH and when he didnt move over for her she started growling at him. he went to move her off the lounge and she bit him. Not enough to puncture but he was really upset and angry about it. After this she goes to her crate and goes back to sleep. What can I do to address this? I feel she is getting gradually becoming more pushy and more aggressive as she gets older. All opinions gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 is she asleep when this happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 oh no, that's not good at all!!!! yeah, she is sleeping while doing this? if not, start training or back to training again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 It happens when she is sleeping and you either try to move her Do you acknowledge your there or just grab?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Sounds like two completley different circumstances here. One sounds like she is just dreaming whilst asleep and sounds pretty normal. Puppies and adults dogs will often yip, growl and twitch whilst asleep. I wouldn't be moving her if she is asleep and doing this. The other one sound slike she is being a little dominant bitch whilst awake. Grab her by the scruff of the neck and put her in a time out room, like the toilet or laundry, telling her that she is a naughty girl as you do so. Leave her in the time out room for at least 5 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodle proud Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 We dont grab her when she is asleep or anything. I think the older dog spread out slightly when he was lieing near her but he didnt even come close to squashing her. But I think she was asleep when he did this. Shes more drowsy when she does this. If you move near her she just starts growling and if you keep moving thast when she snaps. But no she is definitely not fast asleep. As my OH told me today she just started growling at him because he wouldnt make more room for her. So definitely wide awake when she snapped this time. charleswentworth, what exactly do you mean when you say back to training? She is doing basic obedience but stopping her biting is not something we have been good at. I usually redirect her to a toy or walk away. We tried yelling ouch but it seemed to egg her on. At a loss currentlty If I am doing something wrong Id like to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Shes more drowsy when she does this. If you move near her she just starts growling and if you keep moving thast when she snaps. But no she is definitely not fast asleep. Then she is not asleep and just being a dominant little bitch. Either remove her from the couch and don't allow her back up for a certain period telling her that she is a 'bad girl' or do the time out in a room or outside. You have to show her that you are the boss. Others may suggest that she might be sore somewhere. Check her all over for sore points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodle proud Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 Shes more drowsy when she does this. If you move near her she just starts growling and if you keep moving thast when she snaps. But no she is definitely not fast asleep. Then she is not asleep and just being a dominant little bitch. Either remove her from the couch and don't allow her back up for a certain period telling her that she is a 'bad girl' or do the time out in a room or outside. You have to show her that you are the boss. Others may suggest that she might be sore somewhere. Check her all over for sore points. Thanks, I will check her for sore spots. She is FAST asleep next to me at the moment so Im not game to check just yet... Its funny puggy puggy. I know thats the accurate term but those exact words have come out of my OH's mouth . Im afraid she is just being a brat. Is it ok to grab them like that? I certainly dont want to be walked over but I want to make sure Im communicating that what she is doing is not ok in a way she understands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Is it ok to grab them like that? I certainly dont want to be walked over but I want to make sure Im communicating that what she is doing is not ok in a way she understands. Yes absolutley fine to grab them by the hair and skin on the back of their neck. Mother dogs do so with their pups to move them around. I have been picking up a 5kg pug, by the scruff of the neck, to move her around many times a day. She doesn't care. I pick my 9kg pug up by the scruff if he is fighting with his sister. They have suffered no damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 charleswentworth, what exactly do you mean when you say back to training? She is doing basic obedience but stopping her biting is not something we have been good at. I usually redirect her to a toy or walk away. We tried yelling ouch but it seemed to egg her on.At a loss currentlty If I am doing something wrong Id like to change it. i meant, just teach her who's boss again... she might be too comfertable and start trying to push how far she can go again with you and OH... so go back to training again. my mum has a problem like that with one of her dogs... the dog gets to comfertable in the house and test her dominant again (growling.. never biting), and my mum always has to put her in her place. once the growling starts, my mum give her time out for 5 minutes, then before she let the dog out.. she makes the dog go through the simple commands like 'sit', 'drop', 'lay down' and 'roll over'. but, i agree with the other.. don't move puppy when she is sleeping. hope that make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 just want to say, Atlas has a thing about being woken, if he is in a deep sleep and something startles him, he will jump up and snap and growl, he has done it since a puppy, i just make sure when he is asleep he is away from people usually put him in his room, or leave him on the other lounge, if i have people over, he is crated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobchic Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Do you invite ur puppy onto the couch or does he just jump up? I found with Fluffy he was getting a bit too comfortable, and would just jump up and do whatever he pleased. After an evening of not allowing him on the couch, he learnt to stay on the ground. We then started inviting him up and he has since been diffrent.. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I s it ok to grab them like that? I certainly dont want to be walked over but I want to make sure Im communicating that what she is doing is not ok in a way she understands. I wouldnt suggest it unless you are happy that you will follow through. The methods you need to use are ones with results. Her growling because she wants more room would last 5 secs here. She is being a little brat & back to training means re establishing the the human is above the dog. Do you spoil her???Do both of you follow the same rules??Does she have boundries?? What is she like being brushed?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Sounds to me this little one has your measure. And this is something you need to change ..... quickly. If you're not sure what to do and how, then please get some help. This behaviour is only likely to worsen as your pup matures. You have a chance now to circumvent the issue becoming more serious than it is. Like Settrlvr - growling at me because I wouldn't make room would last 5 seconds .... even less, here. And I wouldn't at all be happy to feel "not game" to wake my dog up, although I do like to warn them of my impending approach first, to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelle Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) Similar but different, My JRT Jake, growled at Ellie over a ball the other day (8 kgs vs 40 kg and she backed off ) anyhow, I immediately shouted no, yanked him straight up and I put him straight into time out in the bathroom. I llet him out a few mins later and he was completely calm and submissive! I am their boss, I make decisions about who gets the ball, not an 8 kg ball of fur Where did I learn this? puppy school and DOL :D Id never have dreamt of time out for dogs ( i use it for kids ) but I can assure oyu it really does work - as long as it is immediate. Good luck. Edited April 21, 2009 by joelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodle proud Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Thankyou everyone for your input. I really appreciate it. I certainly dont set out to spoil her. We have the older dog at home and from day one she was not treated like a princess. We wanted them to settle in well and so gave the older dog attention first, food first etc. Brushing: pretty good, a bit mouthy towards the end. Boundaries: several rooms off limits, barricades/doors shut etc. Not sure if thats what you mean by boundaries settrlvr Lounge: Does get up on her own (but that can be changed. I guess I have let her because the older dog does it and is well behaved) I can identify a few challanges that crop up daily where I have probably just given into her or not addressed issues appropriately as I wasnt sure what to do so if anyone could help me with these Id be so grateful. These are the major questions. 1.Is it still reasonable to take her out to the toilet if she wakes in the night (I do every time because I dont want to make her soil her crate)? 2 Should I ignore her cries at 5:30/6am just because she wants to get out of the pen and play or is that just life with a puppy and I should get up then too? 3. If she does something unacceptable that I deem worthy of timeout but then runs away is she still going to understand what the timeout is for once I finally catch her or is it a waste of time? 4. Is it ok to give her periods of time away from us and the other dog or is that unfair? 5. What do you do for minor infractions like her barking at or harassing the older dog wanting to play? Do you still grab them by the scruff of the neck for these? Im wanting to be a good and fair leader to both dogs but because I doubt what I am doing its hard to be consistent which I know full well is whats needed. Thanks again for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockets Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 If it were my dog, I would restrict their access to the house and would NOT allow the dog on the couch If a dog cries to be let out of the crate and you are certain its not because the pup needs to toilet then no I would not go to them until they have settled down and are quiet, otherwise your pup is learning that if it makes enough noise, mum comes and gets me and I get what I want Your pup needs to learn it is a pup and it is at the bottom of the pack, you can do this by not allowing the dog access to the inside of the house whenever it likes, make the pup think that being inside is like a treat/reward, you can do this by limiting each time the pup is inside and when the pup is outside for example: Pup outside for 5 minutes Bring pup inside for 10 minutes put pup out for 2 minutes Bring pup in for 5 minutes Put pup out for 15 minutes Bring in for 2 minutes and when outside if the dog cries, scratches at the door, same rule applies as the crate, we do not go to the dog until the dog settles or until the dog is quiet , when you let the pup in, make the pup wait until you say "ok" dont let the pup barge through the door as soon as you open it you can also use the TOT training method that is pinned in the training forum, which is a great tool to use with dogs/puppies, go have a read If the puppy is getting to over the top, fiesty or in the face of the older dog, then you correct the dog and say "no, leave" that is the warning, much like you would to a child If the pup continues, I would say "No, leave" and put the dog in a time out in a toilet room or somewhere boring same rule applies, leave the pup in there for 5 minutes, however only let the pup out once the pup is quiet and once you let the dog out of time out, do not look or speak to the pup, open the door and walk away, ignoring the dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam&Saki Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Are you sure it's related to the pup being sleepy and not related to the pup being on the couch (or bed?) As I understand it, in doggy heirarchy, lower dogs all sleep in each others' beds but nobody is allowed in alpha dog's bed except alpha dog. It's pretty common for a dog to become protective over a certain couch and not allow others to get on it or remove the dog from it. All related to dominance. Reassert your dominance and put the dog back in its place and hopefully it will be problem solved x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 . Is it ok to give her periods of time away from us and the other dog or is that unfair? This is something that happens here.All youngsters learn to be independent from the others,us & it snt unfair but setting them up for life. It doesnt sound like you have a monster but a dog who is trying it on at present ,At present she is winning. I would personally not pick her up to sit on lounge at present .If you did i would pick her up sit quietly with her for a short spell & put her down & good dog.She gets the privilege on your terms not hers Do you brush her on your lap on the lounge??? We board some poodles that are the possessive tassie devils from hell with the beds ,Owners where afraid & didnt address it.Charmers in all other aspects but heavon help the owners if they approach the bed,This is not acceptable for us so in the kennels they bed is removed & they will get something neutral & there fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I would caution against any strong physical response to aggression. "Scruffing" a dog may provoke further aggression.. the last thing any dog needs to learn is to defend itself from you. You may be dealing with more than one issue. Some drowsy dogs to have strong startle reflexes.. and will defend themselves if disturbed. However a clear warning from her to your OH when she was awake and a bite to follow up spells trouble. I agree with all the recommendations about reinforcing boundaries and I would ban her from the couch. I would also strongly recommend you return to obedience training to reinforce respect from her. If this continues, I would also recommend you seek the help of an experienced behaviourist. She sounds like quite a handful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now