Confirmation Problem With Front Legs Update Post 23

[Miranda]

Miranda no she isn't lame and shows no sign of pain at all. She runs riot around the house as much as possible and loves training, playing or going for walks.

Joints can look swollen and 'knobbly' while a dog is growing and don't smooth out until the growth plates close. She may have gone down in pastern because she's teething or she may just have a bad front. As I said many small crossbreeds have atrocious fronts, but still seem to lead a normal life. I wouldn't be rushing into surgery if she's not in pain and her mobility isn't adversely affected.

Hard to say without a photo.

[mplsv]

HMMM maybe Kelly Louise, if I can figure it out....

Daisy just a couple of weeks ago curled up on pillow mountain.

Daisy at 7 weeks.

and with Flea her favourite toy:)

[mplsv]

OK the vet said Daisy has Valgus Deformity in both her front legs. After looking at the xrays and talking to the vet I think the gist of it was one bone stops growing before the other and the bone that continues growing then starts to bow.

There may have been another area of concern so he is going to send the xrays away to a specialist to get their opinion.

[Erny]

... talking to the vet I think the gist of it was one bone stops growing before the other and the bone that continues growing then starts to bow.

That's what a Vet suggested to me when I took my boy in to see him with concerns of 'deformity' in growth of his front legs. A visit to a specialist resulted in the "Carpal Laxity Syndrome" diagnosis with "diet" and careful weight gain being the preferred 'treatment'. No 'forced' exercise. Just free running. Slippery floors are a no-no and can hazard this sort of condition, although in my boy's case, slippery surfaces were already covered. Here's a picture of my boy's legs back then (about 10 or 11 wo at the time of photo). The problem showed up in his right leg first, 3 days after coming here. His right leg was the worse affected. Usually both legs are affected (as were his) but it is most common that one is worse than the other (as was his).

And here's one of his front legs 2 months further on from the above photo. Only just now do I realise I don't seem to have any of him in the 'sit' position with photo front on, but I think you might get the gist from this one that his legs had by then straightened considerably (notice the lean on his outside toes in the first photo, then compare to the second).

Growth plates still very open at that stage, with much more growing to do, so the knees appear knobbly (as opposed to knuckled over). He's 10mo now and his knees aren't so 'big' now.

There may have been another area of concern so he is going to send the xrays away to a specialist to get their opinion.

I think specialist opinion definitely the way to go.

Edited April 20, 2009 by Erny

[puggy_puggy]

OK the vet said Daisy has Valgus Deformity in both her front legs. After looking at the xrays and talking to the vet I think the gist of it was one bone stops growing before the other and the bone that continues growing then starts to bow.

There may have been another area of concern so he is going to send the xrays away to a specialist to get their opinion.

That is what was wrong with Poppy. Her diagnosis was 'Premature closure of the distal radial physis resulting in a short radius with antebrachiocarpal and radiohumeral subluxation in LFL' Basically the radius stopped growing but the ulnar didn't.

Her's was so bad she walked around on it like a seals flipper so surgery really was necessary.

Her surgeon performed an operation where the ulnar and radius were both cut in half. From the ulnar, bone was taken and put into the radius to lengthen it. A metal plate with screws was then attached to the radius with screws going through it to the seperate bones the ulnar now is.

It's not a cheap operation.

Edited April 20, 2009 by puggy_puggy

[mplsv]

Gees Erny thats a huge difference, especially for just a couple of months! Can I ask what sort of diet he was put on?

Puggy_puggy your description of the operation was what the vet said, you just put it WAY better than I could

here is a couple of pics taken tonight so forgive Daisy if she isnt looking her best.

side on

front on

Edited April 20, 2009 by mplsv

[Kelly_Louise]

Aww Daisy is such an adorable looking girl - very special.

Glad that you will be getting a specialist opinion - hopefully they will give you the best options for Daisy.

Fingers crossed that surgery wont be needed.

Thank you for sharing pics, and please keep us updated.

Hugs to the lovely Daisy.

[Erny]

Gees Erny thats a huge difference, especially for just a couple of months! Can I ask what sort of diet he was put on?

I had him on straight Eagle Pack Holistic (Large Breed) Puppy. That way I felt I could better control the balance of protein to his diet and whilst aiming for weight gain (as he was under-weight), but running the fine line of simultaneously trying to slow down growth.

Edited April 20, 2009 by Erny

[puggy_puggy]

Gees Erny thats a huge difference, especially for just a couple of months! Can I ask what sort of diet he was put on?

Diet is not going to really help your girl. If she was knuckling it would but if her growth plate has closed then nothing is going to change it. The only thing you need to do is not let her get to fat as that is going to put extra pressure on her bones.

mplsv what state are you in?

I think that you should monitor the progress of the deformity untill she stops growing. She may never get as bad as her legs flippering out so may not need surgery. If she does flipper out then surgery is usually performed just after they have stopped growing.

I have Poppy's pre and post surgery xrays that I have been meaning to post online.

[Erny]

Diet is not going to really help your girl. If she was knuckling it would but if her growth plate has closed then nothing is going to change it.

I agree with Puggy that diet, if it is going to help, is most effective when the pup is quite young. But at 6 months of age, I'd suggest a good diet might help - even if it is just in a smaller way, but might prove just enough to thwart off surgery being necessary later on after growth has finished. Any little bit of good is good.

Puggy - would growth plates be closed at 6 months? I know this is a smaller dog than my boy (who is 'large breed'), and perhaps that makes the difference?

[puggy_puggy]

Puggy - would growth plates be closed at 6 months? I know this is a smaller dog than my boy (who is 'large breed'), and perhaps that makes the difference?

With early growth plate closure most likely yes. Remember in this condition only one of the growth closes prematurely in the radius. The other growth plates in the ulnar don't close untill they normally are supposed to, around 12 to 13 months in a smaller breed like this. The severity of the deformity really has to do with how much growing was left to be done when the growth plate closed. (basically how much longer the ulnar is compared to the deformed radius)

Poppy also came into rescue knuckling like your dog Erny, but her's was more like she was standing on her tippy toes. I got her onto a diet of minced chicken carcusses, food processed veggies, yoghurt and RMB and made sure I weighed her every few days so that I was only feeding 10% of her body weight daily.

[Alyosha]

Do you think this is the same thing untreated? This is from the Blacktown Pound thread in rescue:

Or is this something completely different?

I'm presuming this little fellow is still mobile...

[puggy_puggy]

Do you think this is the same thing untreated? This is from the Blacktown Pound thread in rescue:

Or is this something completely different?

Poor bloke. Looks more like knuckling (Carpal Laxity Syndrome) like Erny's dog rather then premature growth plate closure like mplsv's dog & my ex foster girl.

Knuckling is cause by incorrect diet so can be reversed whilst the puppy is still growing with good food. But this guy looks way beyond his puppy years so nothing would really help.

[mplsv]

I think the vet thought one (maybe both) of her growth plates had closed already or there was another anomally to do with that spot because he said he wanted to look at more current texts and pictures. Her right leg was growing crooked too if that makes sense.

It was really hard to take in everything he said because besides being a tad devastated my almost 6yo autistic daughter kept butting into the conversation as she has recently turned into a chatterbox and doesn't yet know about social niceties, politeness and waiting your turn to speak lol.

The vet also had a slight accent and my lack of dog knowledge made things even worse!

Am hoping to find out more when I take her to get her stitches removed.

She is 5 calender months now so I guess it's a bit worrying she may have 7-8 months of growing still to go.

[redangel]

I rescued a dobe puppy once that was so malnourished her main diet was pebbles from the driveway She knuckled over and her front legs were "bending". Having done vet nursing for some years I wouldnt consider anything short of getting an orthopedic specialist consult....I mean 14yrs is a long time to live with something that with the right advice may have been easily corrected. Specialists see the worst and so a single consultation would provide more insight and experience to offer a best fit solution in your situation...than say in general practice.

This dobe ended up having splints on her front legs for a spell, followed by physio...at maturity you would have never known how she started

Edited April 22, 2009 by redangel