Pet Pals Dog Training In Melbourne

[Rock*]

Hey,

New to the forum and my first dog since i was a lot younger......has anyone used or know of anyone who has had any experience with 'Pet Pals' dog training?? i have had some different experiences there along with another couple that i have been speaking too and want to know if it's just me.....

Cheers

Wazza

[Cosmolo]

Haven't heard of them? Do they do private or group training?

[Rock*]

They do small group training, myself and my partner feel that we are getting nothing out of the classes, rather going backwards......When our dog gets excited we get a tarp put around us to shield us from other dogs (I can sort of see the merit in), or the trainer continuously puts kibble onto the floor for him, we are told never to use a choker chain, or put our knees up if he jumps, not to say Ah Ah etc, play time is about 5 mins at the end of lass and he has been banned because she says he is too rough, but the owners of the other dogs say that their dog plays rougher, and being that my dog is 5 month purebred Ridgeback and the next biggest dog is a King Charles i guess he just appears to be playing rough. He plays with my mates 2 1/2yo and is as gentle as anything.....

I guess it's just frustrating, and talking to the breeders they seems to be of the same opinion as us. Also the classes are conducted on a hard wooden floor, our dog falls, slips all over the place and that can't be good for his fast growing hips etc.

Am i ignorant in my way of thinking?????

[Cosmolo]

You will find that some of us need to be careful about any comments on a public forum where you have named the company.. However, i do think putting a tarp around to block the dogs view is quite an ineffective way to deal with any problem and have never heard of anyone doing that before. Have you discussed your concerns with the trainer? I too would be worried about a large breed dog slipping around on hard floors while training.

There are many training techniques to choose from and you may want to seek someone who uses a combination of positive reinforcement and appropriate corrections if you feel the positive only is not working for you.

ETA no i don't think you are ignorant. I always say to people that training should make sense and seem logical when explained. If things do not appear this way, often there is something not quite right.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Cosmolo

[Rock*]

Yea i understand the need to be careful about what is said, I'm not trying to discredit the trainer in anyway, as I'm sure she has had success with her methods, i just don't think they suit myself or my dog.

In relation to approaching them, i have mentioned thing during the classes but seem to get no-where.

Thanks for the fast replies.

[Cosmolo]

Not every method will suit very dog, problem and situation. Finding the right trainer for you can be difficult but well worth it when you hit on the right techniques for you and your dog. Great picture in your avatar- cute puppy.

[4 Paws]

Nothing to do with the group in question but I have previously attended a 6 week basic manners course run by a Delta trainer and they dealt with my reactive dog the same way, but using a tarp between her and the next dog which I felt never helped her deal with other dogs at all

[Cosmolo]

Can i ask how long ago 4Paws? Just wondering if this is something new DELTA have introduced into their course as i have seen many DELTA trainers but haven't heard of this before.

[pipsqueak]

Can i ask how long ago 4Paws? Just wondering if this is something new DELTA have introduced into their course as i have seen many DELTA trainers but haven't heard of this before.

I am not sure how long it has been used here, but it seems quite common (and popular) in the US - where they run classes specifically for reactive and timid dogs. The idea is, I believe, is to give the dog time to calm down and adjust. They work towards taking the barrier down, but quite often will put it back up again if the dog is getting stressed. From the websites that I have seen (sorry, didn't bookmark any of them), it sseems to be common with clicker trainers over there.

[lappiemum]

They do small group training, myself and my partner feel that we are getting nothing out of the classes, rather going backwards......When our dog gets excited we get a tarp put around us to shield us from other dogs (I can sort of see the merit in), or the trainer continuously puts kibble onto the floor for him, we are told never to use a choker chain, or put our knees up if he jumps, not to say Ah Ah etc, play time is about 5 mins at the end of lass and he has been banned because she says he is too rough, but the owners of the other dogs say that their dog plays rougher, and being that my dog is 5 month purebred Ridgeback and the next biggest dog is a King Charles i guess he just appears to be playing rough. He plays with my mates 2 1/2yo and is as gentle as anything.....

I guess it's just frustrating, and talking to the breeders they seems to be of the same opinion as us. Also the classes are conducted on a hard wooden floor, our dog falls, slips all over the place and that can't be good for his fast growing hips etc.

Am i ignorant in my way of thinking?????

Hi Rock - have sent you a PM - forgot to ask where in melb you are?

[Rock*]

They do small group training, myself and my partner feel that we are getting nothing out of the classes, rather going backwards......When our dog gets excited we get a tarp put around us to shield us from other dogs (I can sort of see the merit in), or the trainer continuously puts kibble onto the floor for him, we are told never to use a choker chain, or put our knees up if he jumps, not to say Ah Ah etc, play time is about 5 mins at the end of lass and he has been banned because she says he is too rough, but the owners of the other dogs say that their dog plays rougher, and being that my dog is 5 month purebred Ridgeback and the next biggest dog is a King Charles i guess he just appears to be playing rough. He plays with my mates 2 1/2yo and is as gentle as anything.....

I guess it's just frustrating, and talking to the breeders they seems to be of the same opinion as us. Also the classes are conducted on a hard wooden floor, our dog falls, slips all over the place and that can't be good for his fast growing hips etc.

Am i ignorant in my way of thinking?????

Hi Rock - have sent you a PM - forgot to ask where in melb you are?

I have replied, I'm in Carrum Downs......

[huski]

Can i ask how long ago 4Paws? Just wondering if this is something new DELTA have introduced into their course as i have seen many DELTA trainers but haven't heard of this before.

I am not sure how long it has been used here, but it seems quite common (and popular) in the US - where they run classes specifically for reactive and timid dogs. The idea is, I believe, is to give the dog time to calm down and adjust. They work towards taking the barrier down, but quite often will put it back up again if the dog is getting stressed. From the websites that I have seen (sorry, didn't bookmark any of them), it sseems to be common with clicker trainers over there.

This wouldn't work for my reactive dog. Once he knew a dog was near him he's not going to forget just because he can't see it. The smell and sound of it would be enough if it was the type of dog he reacts to.

[4 Paws]

Can i ask how long ago 4Paws? Just wondering if this is something new DELTA have introduced into their course as i have seen many DELTA trainers but haven't heard of this before.

About 4 years ago

[Nekhbet]

tarp ... oh dear I have missed some things havnt I

and here I thought leadership and good handling skills were the way to go *slaps forehead*

Rock if you need pointers or some start up training there are many good trainers who can help you at home - me, Cosmolo, Erny etc we all have websites in our signatures take a squiz and see who suits you best

I think a few private lessons will help you on the right road :p

[Erny]

tarp ... oh dear I have missed some things haven't I

As have I, Nekhbet.

I have never heard of "Pet Pals DT" either .... and I'm frequently over in that area.

Rock - I think you are wise to be concerned about hard/slippery wooden floors and dogs slipping on them.

ETA: Just checked it up - apparently it is Delta based training and from the looks of it, there are centres in more than just one area. Not sure if it is a franchise or not.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Erny

[Kelpie-i]

I have never heard of "Pet Pals DT" either .... and I'm frequently over in that area.

Erny, judging by the info on the website, the trainer is currently undertaking the Delta course.

[Erny]

Yeah - thanks Kelpie-i. I just added an "ETA" to my post above. I checked it up too.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Erny

[Jen21]

I did Puppy School with Pet Pals in Chelsea in a doggy day centre in February, and it was ok - lots of positive reinforcement with treats, and no sign of tarps, etc. Maybe with puppies, it's different though.

I did find the opposite issue though - my pup was very timid, so she wouldn't interact with him as much as the other dogs, and he didn't get to join in with much of the socialisation/play at the end of the class with the others. It would have been great to have got some help with the timid issue, rather than just not try.

I did decide to not go back for the next level of her group training, and try some one-on-one work with a trainer recommended here instead, as in a class with 6-8 I didn't feel I got much quality training time in a group, and there's some issues I want expert help with.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Being someone who has studied through Delta as a course provider I just wanted to add a few things form my perspective...not to discredit anyone but just to give some extra background info from my personal experience.

I don't currently use visual barriers although it has been on my 'to-do' list for some time. My take on it is that it would be shade cloth stretched over a square freestanding frame of perhaps pvc. The aim is to reduce visual stimulus but not get rid of it completely. Reducing visual stimulation can aid over excitable pups who are having lots of trouble physically relaxing. I would be using it between two dogs sitting next to each other but they could still see the dog next door and the dog across from them. I only have a small area and our chairs are not movable- they are like church pews. In saying this however, I would tend to try showing and reminding the handler of what they should be doing to help their pup settle and focus on them i.e. targeting, luring back to your mat, rewarding focus, bridging and rewarding any calm behaviour.

I think we have probably all had the very hyper terrier pup in class who is constantly barking and rehearsing some behaviours with other pups that perhaps would be aided by reducing their opportunity to do that. Generally, the handlers are quite embarrassed about the fact that their pup is a bit reactive so it may help there too.

With the behaviour problem solving owners need to be taught 1. Manage behaviours so they can't be rehearsed 2. Teach what you want the alternative behaviour to be instead.

Delta's recommendations are that puppies are NO OLDER than 14-16 weeks before beginning puppy school but I deal with this on a breed/age case by case basis and if I had someone ring me with a 14/15 week old Labrador, then my recommendations are going to be head straight to a young dog or basic class where they have more room to move around, (as these classes are generally outside) AND the handlers don't find it too basic- which puppy school may be by that stage.

I generally don't do off lead play in my classes for a few reasons, mostly that my area is too small. The recommendations are that we can conduct off-lead play, but this is best done separated from the on-lead pups i.e. via an ex pen, and that we choose compatible pups in temperament and to a certain extent, size. Also that this is done in small groups of 2 or 3 and is watched at all times by a trainer- which is sensible IMO.

It can be a difficult situation in that a playful whack from a Labrador may unintentionally hurt a poodles back and create a negative association or lasting physical problems = not very happy poodle owner!!! I have seen this in adult dog classes where the situation was poorly managed and know that the smaller dog I witnessed also has lasting anxiety issues and regular visits to the Chiro.

Seeing as the trendy thing to be doing is training our dogs that other dogs = neutral stimulus then it's not a terrible thing that there is no off-lead play IMO.

Added to that, if clients in my class really must socialise their pups off-lead then they can organise it with friends dogs in their own time.

I do agree with the polished floors- I have two venues but trade the bigger room with the polished floors to my smaller one with textured tile floors for that reason. I would only ever use polished floors if it was covered with the click-style rubber matting they use for martial arts.

There are a bunch of other aspects I could prattle on about but I think that's probably enough for now! It just seems that there is incorrect information coming through, and that the training philosophy of the Cert IV in CAS is more complete than one would realise from the outside. There is- of course- that other can of worms that is adult learning and what can be lost in translation when you have a bunch of puppies to distract everyone in the class!

Cheers,

Mel.

Edited for crappy grammar due to sleep deprivation.

Edited April 18, 2009 by Staff'n'Toller

[Rock*]

Thanks for all the posts people, were gonna sift through some different people on here and will prob go with a few one on one lessons just to tidy a few things up with our pup.

wazza