Debarking In Sydney

[Crisovar]

All I can tell you is of my experience.

My dog was debarked by a very experienced vet who works for breeders all over queensland. If you are having dogs debarked in Qld then my guess is that you may be seeing the same surgery. The reason for the cicatrix in this case is because the surgery removed both sides of the bellows, not just one, leading to the base of the wind pipe being slightly nicked. This is doen when the owner wishes the dog to be made VERY quiet and is not the norm these days, however my dog is not yet 4.

This complication does occur in a small percentage of cases as i said - I have done extensive research and spent an hour at Queensland University with a canine specialist having the reason for the cicatrix, the different surgery options and physiological reasons for explained to me in great detail before her last corrective surgery. I could not agree more - it is very unlucky - what i would like to point out is that it does affect a quantifiable percentage of dogs. If your dog is a saluki or other breed that is very sensitive to anaesthetic this is a strong consideration.

As for the lack of confidence, I guess that depends on the drive and breed of your dog, the understanding of the trainer you work with and how much training and of what nature you choose to do with your dog. For those only interested in obedience trainng it would not be an issue. For those whose dog is not dominant my guess is it wouldn't be either - but that is an unqualified guess.

Debarking is a personal decision for pet owners, whose criteria for such a decisison are defined by their personal living situation and the type of dog they have. Given my dog's experience and the fact that my breeder and several vet's are aware of the complications I feel that it is relavent information for anyone considering debarking their dog.

Finally, and I am sure some of you will not agree with me and that's ok, I think people see debarking as a convenient way to solve their dog's barking problem - without taking other steps to encourage alternative behaviours.

I'm sure some people do, but there are just as many others who feel have run out of options, like me. I've been made to feel like the scum of the earth by just about every vet surgery I enquired with (around 8 of them), but I refuse to feel guilty anymore and I'm relieved that we've finally (hopefully) reduced the problem. Yes, it was a convenient way to solve the problem, but after 5 years of complaints, electric collars, confining, anti-anxiety medication, bark-busters, many and various training/dominance methods etc I felt that I had tried all my options.

You and so many others who have been in the same situation.

And for many dogs the procedure makes all the difference between life and death.

[ILK]

I really hope that you find a good vet to do the job & all turns out well.....

It sounds cruel, but sometimes we have to be cruel to be kind..... It sounds like you have tried everything. I hope it works out for you!

[Julie L]

Well, our debarking 'quiet' time is well and truly over and I'm extremely happy to report that I did a surprise visit this morning to catch the dogs in the act when they weren't expecting me home and... both dogs were barking at the back fence - at first I thought only 1 dog was barking, then I realised the 'barky-but-now-non-barky' dog was also barking. I could barely hear her at the back fence !! No, we don't have a massive yard, only 800m2 !! Woohoo ! I am SOOOO relieved. Our neighbour tells me this has been a nice week. It makes it all worthwhile. And for all the nay-sayers, her personality and general well-being has not changed a bit.

[OSoSwift]

I am glad you have had such a positive result and I am sure your neighbours will be much happier also. Now you can relax a little!

[Julie L]

Well, our debarking 'quiet' time is well and truly over and I'm extremely happy to report that I did a surprise visit this morning to catch the dogs in the act when they weren't expecting me home and... both dogs were barking at the back fence - at first I thought only 1 dog was barking, then I realised the 'barky-but-now-non-barky' dog was also barking. I could barely hear her at the back fence !! No, we don't have a massive yard, only 800m2 !! Woohoo ! I am SOOOO relieved. Our neighbour tells me this has been a nice week. It makes it all worthwhile. And for all the nay-sayers, her personality and general well-being has not changed a bit.

We have just noticed a 'side-effect' of this operation. Our dominant dog who now has a nice quiet bark was obviously the barker-in-charge-of-admissions, and now that she's not fulfilling her role, our other dog who hardly barks at all, has decided that she needs to bark quite generously and loudly whenever people visit. Its not a problem because she doesn't just bark all the time, at nothing and for no reason like the other one does, but just interesting that she has noticed and taken over the role of guard-barker...

[ILK]

So glad it has gone well for you.

[mantis]

Let me see, training, or debarking?

Sorry, but I can't for the life of me see why a dog has to have an operation to stop itdoing what comes naturally & what they are meant to do. If they bark too much, maybe spend the money it costs to de-bark on training.

What's next? A dog who chews things they shouldn't, has their teeth removed.

[oakway]

Well, our debarking 'quiet' time is well and truly over and I'm extremely happy to report that I did a surprise visit this morning to catch the dogs in the act when they weren't expecting me home and... both dogs were barking at the back fence - at first I thought only 1 dog was barking, then I realised the 'barky-but-now-non-barky' dog was also barking. I could barely hear her at the back fence !! No, we don't have a massive yard, only 800m2 !! Woohoo ! I am SOOOO relieved. Our neighbour tells me this has been a nice week. It makes it all worthwhile. And for all the nay-sayers, her personality and general well-being has not changed a bit. :D

Nothing's changed,...... of course nothings changed the dog is just the same as before, the only differance is that it does it quietly.

Good on you for having it done.

[carlibud]

Let me see, training, or debarking?

Sorry, but I can't for the life of me see why a dog has to have an operation to stop itdoing what comes naturally & what they are meant to do. If they bark too much, maybe spend the money it costs to de-bark on training.

What's next? A dog who chews things they shouldn't, has their teeth removed.

:D

You obviously have never had a dog that barks non stop Mantis

Or lived next door to one

I know there would be training to stop them if you are there, but what about when you are not there .????

To be honest I used to think that it seemed cruel, but since learning more about it and seeing dogs that would drive me insane I would prefer to have them debarked than PTS, Which some I am sure have been, brcause people couldnt stoip barking.

When you walk around at shows and see dogs barking non stop and no noise, now I think OH my god what must that of been like to live with. LOL

Besides it is like anything some dogs are worse than others. at anything . My girl isnt a barker but god forbid I leave anything around she shouldnt get to, its chewed up and YES she is a candidate for having her teeth all removed :D

JUST joking of course

NOT :D

[mantis]

Let me see, training, or debarking?

Sorry, but I can't for the life of me see why a dog has to have an operation to stop itdoing what comes naturally & what they are meant to do. If they bark too much, maybe spend the money it costs to de-bark on training.

What's next? A dog who chews things they shouldn't, has their teeth removed.

:D

You obviously have never had a dog that barks non stop Mantis

Or lived next door to one

I know there would be training to stop them if you are there, but what about when you are not there .????

To be honest I used to think that it seemed cruel, but since learning more about it and seeing dogs that would drive me insane I would prefer to have them debarked than PTS, Which some I am sure have been, brcause people couldnt stoip barking.

When you walk around at shows and see dogs barking non stop and no noise, now I think OH my god what must that of been like to live with. LOL

Besides it is like anything some dogs are worse than others. at anything . My girl isnt a barker but god forbid I leave anything around she shouldnt get to, its chewed up and YES she is a candidate for having her teeth all removed :D

JUST joking of course

NOT :D

A bit of history on my boy. He suffers seperation anxiety, the reason I had to replace many doonas, couches, clothes etc. When I moved into a rental property, after two weeks I got a letter from the council, saying Kenny barked from the minute I left for work, until the minute I got home & being a big dog, he must have driven the neighbours nuts. So I went to my neighbours & said they should have told me earlier, so we could address the problem. Kenny hates water, so I bought a "super soaker" & put it on the bin in front of the side gate & told my neighbours whenever he barked, give him a spray, two days later, problem solved. There is always a way to stop a dog barking for nothing, a much better option than ripping their bark out.

[carlibud]

I'm really glad it worked for your boy Mantis.

It wouldnt work on my girl ( If she was barker, which thank god at home she isnt, shows are a different kennel of fish though ) She loves water being squirted at her.

But if that hadnt worked Mantis what would you of done next?

.

And I'm not being rude here, I'm really curious, as I know of someone that has to go the debarking route now cause nothing else is working.

And of the dogs I've seen done, none of them seem in the least perturbed about not hearing themselves or should I say not hearing them selves bark.They still bark non stop. If they were upset cause they cant hear themselves Bark they surely would stop with no noise coming out. Some dogs just bark for the sake of hearing themselves bark I'm sure.

ETA This will always be the same old debate just like tail docking or circumcisions in humans I guess.We all have our thought's and wont always see things the same way. But thats life isnt it .

Edited July 10, 2009 by carlibud

[mantis]

I'm really glad it worked for your boy Mantis.

It wouldnt work on my girl ( If she was barker, which thank god at home she isnt, shows are a different kennel of fish though ) She loves water being squirted at her.

But if that hadnt worked Mantis what would you of done next?

.

And I'm not being rude here, I'm really curious, as I know of someone that has to go the debarking route now cause nothing else is working.

And of the dogs I've seen done, none of them seem in the least perturbed about not hearing themselves or should I say not hearing them selves bark.They still bark non stop. If they were upset cause they cant hear themselves Bark they surely would stop with no noise coming out. Some dogs just bark for the sake of hearing themselves bark I'm sure.

ETA This will always be the same old debate just like tail docking or circumcisions in humans I guess.We all have our thought's and wont always see things the same way. But thats life isnt it .

I would have got a dog behavouralist in, because there is a reason dogs bark non stop, usually boredom, or seperation anxiety, I doubt a well balanced, well exercised dog, barks for no reason.

[lilyandjazz]

I am so glad it has worked for you.

I have had to have it done for one of my dogs previously, best decision ever. The dog, neighbours and I could all relax and if she did bark when the bird flies over or kids playing next door etc it means she can do what she wants and is alot happier.

Dont feel guilty about your decision, people who often comment have never had to deal with a dog that nothing works for and the stress involved in remedying the problem, they just assume u are not training, not seeking advice from behaviourists or just generally lazy.

I would never hesitate again in getting a dog done, if all other avenues had been tried.

Hopefully everyone can see the difference it has made in your life and the life of your dog and how improved it is.

Edited July 10, 2009 by lilyandjazz

[mantis]

I am so glad it has worked for you.

I have had to have it done for one of my dogs previously, best decision ever. The dog, neighbours and I could all relax and if she did bark when the bird flies over or kids playing next door etc it means she can do what she wants and is alot happier.

Dont feel guilty about your decision, people who often comment have never had to deal with a dog that nothing works for and the stress involved in remedying the problem, they just assume u are not training, not seeking advice from behaviourists or just generally lazy.

I would never hesitate again in getting a dog done, if all other avenues had been tried.

Hopefully everyone can see the difference it has made in your life and the life of your dog and how improved it is.

You have Shelties right? The first time I heard of debarking, was when I was breeding Cairn Terriers & a friend of mine had Shelties, she got all her dogs debarked, said that the top Sheltie breeders recommended it, because the breed are notorious barkers.

I'm not trying to be rude, but did you get professional help, before going the debarking route?

[lilyandjazz]

It was actually a kelpie that has since passed but for close to 5 years we worked with her, others worked with her and it just got to the point where there was no other option.

We have 3 shelties at home and none of them are debarked, their barking can be managed.

It was the right decision for the kelpie and she had a much happier life after she was debarked.

[Crisovar]

Let me see, training, or debarking?

Sorry, but I can't for the life of me see why a dog has to have an operation to stop itdoing what comes naturally & what they are meant to do. If they bark too much, maybe spend the money it costs to de-bark on training.

What's next? A dog who chews things they shouldn't, has their teeth removed.

You obviously have never had a dog that barks non stop Mantis

Or lived next door to one

I know there would be training to stop them if you are there, but what about when you are not there .????

To be honest I used to think that it seemed cruel, but since learning more about it and seeing dogs that would drive me insane I would prefer to have them debarked than PTS, Which some I am sure have been, brcause people couldnt stoip barking.

When you walk around at shows and see dogs barking non stop and no noise, now I think OH my god what must that of been like to live with. LOL

Besides it is like anything some dogs are worse than others. at anything . My girl isnt a barker but god forbid I leave anything around she shouldnt get to, its chewed up and YES she is a candidate for having her teeth all removed

JUST joking of course

NOT

A bit of history on my boy. He suffers seperation anxiety, the reason I had to replace many doonas, couches, clothes etc. When I moved into a rental property, after two weeks I got a letter from the council, saying Kenny barked from the minute I left for work, until the minute I got home & being a big dog, he must have driven the neighbours nuts. So I went to my neighbours & said they should have told me earlier, so we could address the problem. Kenny hates water, so I bought a "super soaker" & put it on the bin in front of the side gate & told my neighbours whenever he barked, give him a spray, two days later, problem solved. There is always a way to stop a dog barking for nothing, a much better option than ripping their bark out.

For a start, they do not RIP THE BARK out, obvious that you are actually quite uninformed as to how the procedure is carried out.

Something worked for your dog that is just ducky, but for many dogs, the owners actually run out of options,

it is too late once a neighbour has baited your dog or let it loose on the street, and this actually happens.

Some people have neighbours who will not assist in any way, they simply want the dog gone.

It is not cruel, and for many dogs it is life saving.

[Julie L]

Let me see, training, or debarking?

Sorry, but I can't for the life of me see why a dog has to have an operation to stop itdoing what comes naturally & what they are meant to do. If they bark too much, maybe spend the money it costs to de-bark on training.

What's next? A dog who chews things they shouldn't, has their teeth removed.

;)

You obviously have never had a dog that barks non stop Mantis :D

Or lived next door to one

I know there would be training to stop them if you are there, but what about when you are not there .????

To be honest I used to think that it seemed cruel, but since learning more about it and seeing dogs that would drive me insane I would prefer to have them debarked than PTS, Which some I am sure have been, brcause people couldnt stoip barking.

When you walk around at shows and see dogs barking non stop and no noise, now I think OH my god what must that of been like to live with. LOL

Besides it is like anything some dogs are worse than others. at anything . My girl isnt a barker but god forbid I leave anything around she shouldnt get to, its chewed up and YES she is a candidate for having her teeth all removed

JUST joking of course

NOT

A bit of history on my boy. He suffers seperation anxiety, the reason I had to replace many doonas, couches, clothes etc. When I moved into a rental property, after two weeks I got a letter from the council, saying Kenny barked from the minute I left for work, until the minute I got home & being a big dog, he must have driven the neighbours nuts. So I went to my neighbours & said they should have told me earlier, so we could address the problem. Kenny hates water, so I bought a "super soaker" & put it on the bin in front of the side gate & told my neighbours whenever he barked, give him a spray, two days later, problem solved. There is always a way to stop a dog barking for nothing, a much better option than ripping their bark out.

For a start, they do not RIP THE BARK out, obvious that you are actually quite uninformed as to how the procedure is carried out.

Something worked for your dog that is just ducky, but for many dogs, the owners actually run out of options,

it is too late once a neighbour has baited your dog or let it loose on the street, and this actually happens.

Some people have neighbours who will not assist in any way, they simply want the dog gone.

It is not cruel, and for many dogs it is life saving.

Hear Hear !!! After 5 years of complaining neighbours, barking collars, behaviour specialists, anti-anxiety medication, endless training and water bombs, none of which helped in our case, sometimes debarking is the only option. Mine also suffers from separation anxiety, but she has another dog for company and I just can't be at home to baby sit her all the time. She just barks much more quietly and I no longer have to worry about what our poor neighbours are going through when we're not home. I absolutely agree that many people will look for the easy way rather that put in any effort, and that is wrong. The 'cauterising' (far removed from ripping-out) operation was a life-saver and I can't rave enough about how happy I am with the result. After all other options are exhausted, I don't feel remotely guilty about debarking.

[Julie L]

Let me see, training, or debarking?

Sorry, but I can't for the life of me see why a dog has to have an operation to stop itdoing what comes naturally & what they are meant to do. If they bark too much, maybe spend the money it costs to de-bark on training.

What's next? A dog who chews things they shouldn't, has their teeth removed.

;)

You obviously have never had a dog that barks non stop Mantis :D

Or lived next door to one

I know there would be training to stop them if you are there, but what about when you are not there .????

To be honest I used to think that it seemed cruel, but since learning more about it and seeing dogs that would drive me insane I would prefer to have them debarked than PTS, Which some I am sure have been, brcause people couldnt stoip barking.

When you walk around at shows and see dogs barking non stop and no noise, now I think OH my god what must that of been like to live with. LOL

Besides it is like anything some dogs are worse than others. at anything . My girl isnt a barker but god forbid I leave anything around she shouldnt get to, its chewed up and YES she is a candidate for having her teeth all removed

JUST joking of course

NOT

A bit of history on my boy. He suffers seperation anxiety, the reason I had to replace many doonas, couches, clothes etc. When I moved into a rental property, after two weeks I got a letter from the council, saying Kenny barked from the minute I left for work, until the minute I got home & being a big dog, he must have driven the neighbours nuts. So I went to my neighbours & said they should have told me earlier, so we could address the problem. Kenny hates water, so I bought a "super soaker" & put it on the bin in front of the side gate & told my neighbours whenever he barked, give him a spray, two days later, problem solved. There is always a way to stop a dog barking for nothing, a much better option than ripping their bark out.

For a start, they do not RIP THE BARK out, obvious that you are actually quite uninformed as to how the procedure is carried out.

Something worked for your dog that is just ducky, but for many dogs, the owners actually run out of options,

it is too late once a neighbour has baited your dog or let it loose on the street, and this actually happens.

Some people have neighbours who will not assist in any way, they simply want the dog gone.

It is not cruel, and for many dogs it is life saving.

Hear Hear !!! After 5 years of complaining neighbours, barking collars, behaviour specialists, anti-anxiety medication, endless training and water bombs, none of which helped in our case, sometimes debarking is the only option. Mine also suffers from separation anxiety, but she has another dog for company and I just can't be at home to baby sit her all the time. She just barks much more quietly and I no longer have to worry about what our poor neighbours are going through when we're not home. I absolutely agree that many people will look for the easy way rather that put in any effort, and that is wrong. The 'cauterising' (far removed from ripping-out) operation was a life-saver and I can't rave enough about how happy I am with the result. After all other options are exhausted, I don't feel remotely guilty about debarking.

AND there is not "always a way to stop the dog barking for nothing." Although 24 hour supervision would probably do it but not gonna happen.

[cowanbree]

I would actually argue that is some cases debarking is more humane than a lot of training methods. Prior to doing my first debark it was action stations every time a dog dared to bark. Those poor dogs spent ½ their lives in time out or being squirted with water or told off etc. One simple operation and they could be normal dogs again.

Not my first port of call but until you have had a dog like Bree that barks when she is happy, playing, alerting to leaves falling off the tree, etc etc etc I don’t think you will ever understand. All I can really say is I wished I had done it years ago and so did my neighbours.

[Aziah]

I would actually argue that is some cases debarking is more humane than a lot of training methods. Prior to doing my first debark it was action stations every time a dog dared to bark. Those poor dogs spent ½ their lives in time out or being squirted with water or told off etc. One simple operation and they could be normal dogs again.

Not my first port of call but until you have had a dog like Bree that barks when she is happy, playing, alerting to leaves falling off the tree, etc etc etc I don’t think you will ever understand. All I can really say is I wished I had done it years ago and so did my neighbours.

Totally agree cowanbree