raz Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Hey thanks for that. How's your dog going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysup Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Oh Julie My LORD that is expensive! I had my last few done for around $140 each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Here it is $250 less 20% for CCCQ members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie L Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Here it is $250 less 20% for CCCQ members. Unfortunately I'm not a dog breeder and not a member of anything so don't get any discounts. Considering that it seems nobody else in QLD will do it, and most vets still think it's illegal in QLD, I was just grateful to find someone. But yes, it was more than I expected to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie L Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Hey thanks for that.How's your dog going? She's great, You wouldn't even know she's had an operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Buy a car... or a bike.I don't know? Converse with a trainer over the phone on what you can try? I do have a car, and a few bikes - Problem is Midol, our closest city that would probably have fully accredited trainers that I know about anyway is Perth 750kms away. The only other regional centres that may are at least 400kms away. Not just a couple of hours. I wouldn't have a problem with telephone and email consultations, but that may not be considered as the dog being assessed by and seeing an accredited trainer. She's great, You wouldn't even know she's had an operation. That's great to hear. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinoisgirl Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) I saw your post and am moved to reply. When I purchased my dog she had been debarked at 7 months of age as the breeder was planning on keeping her for breeding. I must warn you. My dog suffers from what is called a "cicatrix" - this is when the debarking surgery grows back - no the bark doesn't return but the throat closes over and the dog has trouble breathing = further surgery and anaesthetic is requred - annually. She was debarked via her mouth and both sides of the bellow removed. Usually only one side is removed and this is why dog's barks return. One vet I saw said that removing one side of the bellows usually allows the bark to return more vehmenently but removing both increases the risk dramtically of the above problem occurring. Having the surgery performed through the mouth although less stressful in terms of recovery for the dog is more likely to return this type of problem as no stitches are used. I have been to two top class vets with my dog to avoid future surgery and this is the outcome - it occurs in 10 - 15% of dogs who are debarked. Further you should be aware that being debarked effects a dogs self esteem and confidence markedly in some breeds. Have you really done all that you can? I find it hard to imagine a dog that can outsmart a e collar. Only you know the answer to this but let me assure you that you dog will know that it has been debarked. Personally I think it is a human sollution to a canine problem but understand your situation. Perhaps your neighbour could move:-) Edited June 4, 2009 by Malinoisgirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 That is very strange. I have done about 20 plus debarks and never had any serious issues and know a lot of other breeders who debark and haven't heard of this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivvy Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I disagree with this, simply because there are too many people out there who would use it as a first option rather than a last option.Even as it stands now, people will try "bark" collars but will refuse to put one that delivers a static shock on the dog because it's considered "cruel". As long as it's done as a last option I don't care, but I agree with the restrictions on it and if anything I'd like them tightened. I would get mine done as a first option in a heartbeat. Sick to death of my lot barking at everything that walks past the window, and just hearing a noise. My male was done many years ago, he is still loud but nowhere near as loud as he was Wish my neighbours would get their JRTs done. They keep me awake so many nights and have caused our fued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowgirl Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Just wondering, does the dog 'bark' less after the op, or do they bark the same amount just in muted tones? I'm not considering having it done, I just like learning about things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 That is very strange. I have done about 20 plus debarks and never had any serious issues and know a lot of other breeders who debark and haven't heard of this before. I have only seen one dog with health issues after debarking, and that was a dog that had congenital narrowing of it's airways and should not have been a candidate for the procedure to start with. Can't say that I have ever noticed any difference in the confidence or self esteem of the animals after the procedure either. Just wondering, does the dog 'bark' less after the op, or do they bark the same amount just in muted tones? I'm not considering having it done, I just like learning about things smile.gif Yellowgirl, all the ones I have been involved with still bark as much as usual, it is only the volume that is affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I saw your post and am moved to reply. When I purchased my dog she had been debarked at 7 months of age as the breeder was planning on keeping her for breeding. I must warn you. My dog suffers from what is called a "cicatrix" - this is when the debarking surgery grows back - no the bark doesn't return but the throat closes over and the dog has trouble breathing = further surgery and anaesthetic is requred - annually. She was debarked via her mouth and both sides of the bellow removed. Usually only one side is removed and this is why dog's barks return. One vet I saw said that removing one side of the bellows usually allows the bark to return more vehmenently but removing both increases the risk dramtically of the above problem occurring. Having the surgery performed through the mouth although less stressful in terms of recovery for the dog is more likely to return this type of problem as no stitches are used. I have been to two top class vets with my dog to avoid future surgery and this is the outcome - it occurs in 10 - 15% of dogs who are debarked. Further you should be aware that being debarked effects a dogs self esteem and confidence markedly in some breeds. Have you really done all that you can? I find it hard to imagine a dog that can outsmart a e collar. Only you know the answer to this but let me assure you that you dog will know that it has been debarked. Personally I think it is a human sollution to a canine problem but understand your situation. Perhaps your neighbour could move:-) Sounds like you were unlucky... That's the biggest load of garbage I've heard regarding debarking and dog self esteem/confidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I saw your post and am moved to reply. When I purchased my dog she had been debarked at 7 months of age as the breeder was planning on keeping her for breeding. I must warn you. My dog suffers from what is called a "cicatrix" - this is when the debarking surgery grows back - no the bark doesn't return but the throat closes over and the dog has trouble breathing = further surgery and anaesthetic is requred - annually. She was debarked via her mouth and both sides of the bellow removed. Usually only one side is removed and this is why dog's barks return. One vet I saw said that removing one side of the bellows usually allows the bark to return more vehmenently but removing both increases the risk dramtically of the above problem occurring. Having the surgery performed through the mouth although less stressful in terms of recovery for the dog is more likely to return this type of problem as no stitches are used. I have been to two top class vets with my dog to avoid future surgery and this is the outcome - it occurs in 10 - 15% of dogs who are debarked. Further you should be aware that being debarked effects a dogs self esteem and confidence markedly in some breeds. Have you really done all that you can? I find it hard to imagine a dog that can outsmart a e collar. Only you know the answer to this but let me assure you that you dog will know that it has been debarked. Personally I think it is a human sollution to a canine problem but understand your situation. Perhaps your neighbour could move:-) Electronic bark collars are illegal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Electronic bark collars are illegal... No they aren't Isn't their use just restricted in certain states? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie L Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I saw your post and am moved to reply. When I purchased my dog she had been debarked at 7 months of age as the breeder was planning on keeping her for breeding. I must warn you. My dog suffers from what is called a "cicatrix" - this is when the debarking surgery grows back - no the bark doesn't return but the throat closes over and the dog has trouble breathing = further surgery and anaesthetic is requred - annually. She was debarked via her mouth and both sides of the bellow removed. Usually only one side is removed and this is why dog's barks return. One vet I saw said that removing one side of the bellows usually allows the bark to return more vehmenently but removing both increases the risk dramtically of the above problem occurring. Having the surgery performed through the mouth although less stressful in terms of recovery for the dog is more likely to return this type of problem as no stitches are used. I have been to two top class vets with my dog to avoid future surgery and this is the outcome - it occurs in 10 - 15% of dogs who are debarked. Further you should be aware that being debarked effects a dogs self esteem and confidence markedly in some breeds. Have you really done all that you can? I find it hard to imagine a dog that can outsmart a e collar. Only you know the answer to this but let me assure you that you dog will know that it has been debarked. Personally I think it is a human sollution to a canine problem but understand your situation. Perhaps your neighbour could move:-) Sounds like you were unlucky... That's the biggest load of garbage I've heard regarding debarking and dog self esteem/confidence Yeah, I don't really agree with that either, BUT in my case there may be a slight chance it will affect our dogs confidence because of the reason she is barking to start with. The problem was explained to us by a dog behaviouralist and I agree with their theory so here goes... She is the dominant dog and in charge when we are not home. When we're home she is completely relaxed and NEVER barks at anything. She has had 2 knee operations and has had neck and back problems on and off so is a physically unfit dog to be the one in control when the owners are out and she knows it but tries anyway. She will start barking at something (or nothing) and bark continuously for 3-4 hours, after that according to several of our neighbours. Just sitting in the yard, no activity in the street at all, barking up at the sky for HOURS and HOURS - yes, we are 'those' neighbours. It has been deduced that she does this to scare off any intruders before they even get anywhere near the yard, because she knows she is not able to defend her property. This is why I think it may be more worrying for her to not have as loud a voice to ward off 'attackers'. Feel free to pooh-pooh it, but it's a good theory. We have tried her on anti-anxiety medication and it didn't make one iota of difference to her behaviour either. Also fyi, it is very easy for a dog to outsmart an E collar. Put the collar on - scratch, scratch, scratch continuously until it is sticking up the side or back of her head and useless. She has long hair and I have tried clipping her hair into it to no avail. She still keeps scratching at it until it pulls away from her hair and spins around behind her head. Every time I look at her she's scratching at her neck and no, she doesn't have fleas and doesn't scratch her neck unless the collar is on. She's too smart for her own good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) You'd be surprised, mine bark just as much and for just aslong and be just as silly and don't seem to notice they are no longer 'noisy' I think you'll find there won't be any adverse issues with her behaviour and she'll still sit out and bark at the sky for hours and continue her usual daily 'patrol' Edited June 5, 2009 by Aziah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinoisgirl Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 All I can tell you is of my experience. My dog was debarked by a very experienced vet who works for breeders all over queensland. If you are having dogs debarked in Qld then my guess is that you may be seeing the same surgery. The reason for the cicatrix in this case is because the surgery removed both sides of the bellows, not just one, leading to the base of the wind pipe being slightly nicked. This is doen when the owner wishes the dog to be made VERY quiet and is not the norm these days, however my dog is not yet 4. This complication does occur in a small percentage of cases as i said - I have done extensive research and spent an hour at Queensland University with a canine specialist having the reason for the cicatrix, the different surgery options and physiological reasons for explained to me in great detail before her last corrective surgery. I could not agree more - it is very unlucky - what i would like to point out is that it does affect a quantifiable percentage of dogs. If your dog is a saluki or other breed that is very sensitive to anaesthetic this is a strong consideration. As for the lack of confidence, I guess that depends on the drive and breed of your dog, the understanding of the trainer you work with and how much training and of what nature you choose to do with your dog. For those only interested in obedience trainng it would not be an issue. For those whose dog is not dominant my guess is it wouldn't be either - but that is an unqualified guess. Debarking is a personal decision for pet owners, whose criteria for such a decisison are defined by their personal living situation and the type of dog they have. Given my dog's experience and the fact that my breeder and several vet's are aware of the complications I feel that it is relavent information for anyone considering debarking their dog. Finally, and I am sure some of you will not agree with me and that's ok, I think people see debarking as a convenient way to solve their dog's barking problem - without taking other steps to encourage alternative behaviours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie L Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 All I can tell you is of my experience. My dog was debarked by a very experienced vet who works for breeders all over queensland. If you are having dogs debarked in Qld then my guess is that you may be seeing the same surgery. The reason for the cicatrix in this case is because the surgery removed both sides of the bellows, not just one, leading to the base of the wind pipe being slightly nicked. This is doen when the owner wishes the dog to be made VERY quiet and is not the norm these days, however my dog is not yet 4. This complication does occur in a small percentage of cases as i said - I have done extensive research and spent an hour at Queensland University with a canine specialist having the reason for the cicatrix, the different surgery options and physiological reasons for explained to me in great detail before her last corrective surgery. I could not agree more - it is very unlucky - what i would like to point out is that it does affect a quantifiable percentage of dogs. If your dog is a saluki or other breed that is very sensitive to anaesthetic this is a strong consideration. As for the lack of confidence, I guess that depends on the drive and breed of your dog, the understanding of the trainer you work with and how much training and of what nature you choose to do with your dog. For those only interested in obedience trainng it would not be an issue. For those whose dog is not dominant my guess is it wouldn't be either - but that is an unqualified guess. Debarking is a personal decision for pet owners, whose criteria for such a decisison are defined by their personal living situation and the type of dog they have. Given my dog's experience and the fact that my breeder and several vet's are aware of the complications I feel that it is relavent information for anyone considering debarking their dog. Finally, and I am sure some of you will not agree with me and that's ok, I think people see debarking as a convenient way to solve their dog's barking problem - without taking other steps to encourage alternative behaviours. I'm sure some people do, but there are just as many others who feel have run out of options, like me. I've been made to feel like the scum of the earth by just about every vet surgery I enquired with (around 8 of them), but I refuse to feel guilty anymore and I'm relieved that we've finally (hopefully) reduced the problem. Yes, it was a convenient way to solve the problem, but after 5 years of complaints, electric collars, confining, anti-anxiety medication, bark-busters, many and various training/dominance methods etc I felt that I had tried all my options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie L Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 You'd be surprised, mine bark just as much and for just aslong and be just as silly and don't seem to notice they are no longer 'noisy' I think you'll find there won't be any adverse issues with her behaviour and she'll still sit out and bark at the sky for hours and continue her usual daily 'patrol' Sounds good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinoisgirl Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Forum Regular Posts: 1,171 Joined: 16/4/2004 From: Queensland Member No.: 2,358 QUOTE (cowanbree @ 4th Jun 2009 - 09:57 PM) That is very strange. I have done about 20 plus debarks EEK! So many nuisance barkers - and I was unlucky! QUOTE (Just Midol @ 9th May 2009 - 01:10 PM) I disagree with this, simply because there are too many people out there who would use it as a first option rather than a last option. Even as it stands now, people will try "bark" collars but will refuse to put one that delivers a static shock on the dog because it's considered "cruel". As long as it's done as a last option I don't care, but I agree with the restrictions on it and if anything I'd like them tightened Couldn't agree more. Sometimes it's necessary to make the dog's home life more enjoyable in general. Sometimes the dogs are possessions without a voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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