Debarking In Sydney

[Kirty]

Why is debarking so cruel? We desex, we dock, etc. Why not debark?

[Crisovar]

I suppose that I shall get shot down in flames but here goes.

Maybe we should be "Lobbying" to get this procedure made fully legal.

Just stop for a minute and think. No more neighbor disputes, no more council

visits, no more punch ups over barking dogs. Also, remember the case where a

person died after a dispute over a dog.

It's a simple procedure down the throat and takes only a few minutes. The dog's

vocal cords are cauterized and the dog STILL barks but at a soft level that will

not bother the neighbors or anybody else.

I believe this is better answer than euthanasia.

I disagree with this, simply because there are too many people out there who would use it as a first option rather than a last option.

Even as it stands now, people will try "bark" collars but will refuse to put one that delivers a static shock on the dog because it's considered "cruel".

As long as it's done as a last option I don't care, but I agree with the restrictions on it and if anything I'd like them tightened.

So more dogs will die for being problem barkers, Ventrilo chordectomy is not cruel, the dog simply is quieter.

Considering the biggest proportion of complaints most councils get are for barking dogs and many dogs end up PTS as a result I cannot see why it should be any tougher to have the procedure done.

It is a far better alternative than dead dogs.

[Just Midol]

As long as it's done as a last option I don't care, but I agree with the restrictions on it and if anything I'd like them tightened.

In what way. They're already tight.

I'd like to see restrictions tightened on shock collars for novices - I see those in the wrong hands as cruel.

I'd like to see a requirement added that you must provide proof from a dog trainer (and an accredited trainer or at least a recognised trainer) that you've taken reasonable steps to fix it.

I'd also like to see restrictions applied to e-collars. Also to any kind of correction collar.

We agreed. Do you have that warm fuzzy feeling as well?

Crisovar, I never said it was cruel. If I thought it was cruel then I wouldn't support it at all.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Just Midol

[raz]

We agreed. Do you have that warm fuzzy feeling as well?

I do indeed.

[Paganman]

I'd like to see a requirement added that you must provide proof from a dog trainer (and an accreditted trainer or at least a recognised trainer) that you've taken reasonable steps to fix it.

I'd also like to see restrictions applied to e-collars. Also to any kind of correction collar.

We agreed. Do you have that warm fuzzy feeling as well?

Crisovar, I never said it was cruel. If I thought it was cruel then I wouldn't support it at all.

Hey JM this must be the first time ever on dogz that ive agreed with one of your posts

[OSoSwift]

I'd like to see a requirement added that you must provide proof from a dog trainer (and an accredited trainer or at least a recognised trainer) that you've taken reasonable steps to fix it.

What happens if you live in an area that doesn't have any accredited or recognised dog trainers?

[Just Midol]

I'd like to see a requirement added that you must provide proof from a dog trainer (and an accredited trainer or at least a recognised trainer) that you've taken reasonable steps to fix it.

What happens if you live in an area that doesn't have any accredited or recognised dog trainers?

Buy a car... or a bike.

I don't know? Converse with a trainer over the phone on what you can try?

[Julie L]

Was talking to my vet about this and he said that the best way was through the dog's throat, explaining this gave better results and had less side effects that doing it down the mouth.

Has anyone heard similar?

(My girl has been debarked through the mouth and her bark came back over 18 month period.)

Keeping the dog quiet for the healing process is what helps the procedure be a success, because, i was told, when they bark & use there vocals a lot ofter the op it creates scar tissue which then (semi) seals the hole (made from OP) & they will sound pretty loud again in no time.

I have had a couple done, who were very noisy, after complaints also. "understand fully"

I believe down the throat is much better personally.

I've had one of my dogs debarked only two weeks ago (still on dog-sitting duties for another week to keep her quiet) and the operation was down the throat and vocal chords cauterised. I was told a different thing about the scarring though - if she is allowed to bark it will 'exercise' and stretch the scar tissue, allowing it to heal better - therefore allowing her to bark louder. The thing I was really impressed about with this operation is that when she came home she was happy and didn't seem to be in much pain, was eating and drinking normally and able to wear a collar/lead (although I didn't try this). All this despite the fact that she had to stay overnight due to bleeding because her vocal chords were abnormally large (that'd be typical of our luck). I agree this should only ever be a last resort - and it was - but the relief !! The whole household (and probably the whole neighbourhood) is less stressed. She has a nice soft bark now, not hoarse or raspy like we expected. PS debarking was made legal in QLD a couple of years ago, but a lot of vets still aren't aware of it, and are still reluctant to do it regardless. It was very difficult to find a vet, as our local vet hadn't ever done the operation, but he found us one near Aspley who agreed to do it after we explained the circumstances.

[Lady Flying Furball]

Seems to me there is a bit of a paradox here, which I think about with the possibility of getting my dog done if training doesn't work. You need to keep the dog quiet for the operation to be successful, for three weeks. The thing is, if you can keep the dog quiet, you can keep the dog quiet!!

[raz]

The thing is, if you can keep the dog quiet, you can keep the dog quiet!!

Crate him for the 3 weeks - toilet breaks only on lead.

[Lowenhart]

Seems to me there is a bit of a paradox here, which I think about with the possibility of getting my dog done if training doesn't work. You need to keep the dog quiet for the operation to be successful, for three weeks. The thing is, if you can keep the dog quiet, you can keep the dog quiet!!

I've heard of cronic barkers being lightly sedated for the first couple of days. It's the first 5-7 days that keeping them quiet is the most important from what I've heard which is solved by crating them away from stimulisation. Neither of these 'keep quiet' solutions are long term ones.

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

You should not have to keep them quiet for THREE weeks.

The "requirement" is to keep them quiet for the first 10 days after the operation which means NO rushing around like mad things and as little barking as possible, we crate to avoid both these scenarios.

One should also keep them on soft food for the first four days afterwards.

[raz]

You should not have to keep them quiet for THREE weeks.

The "requirement" is to keep them quiet for the first 10 days after the operation which means NO rushing around like mad things and as little barking as possible, we crate to avoid both these scenarios.

Some say 10 days, some say 2-3 weeks and some say it's not necessary at all. Oh well - not really the question the OP was asking anyway

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

Each to his own then, Raz.

Have had four (not all mine) done in the last two years, two of whom were done 12 days ago and three of whom are being done this week.

Two different clinics involved and each time the same advice, keep them quiet for 10 days.

No not what the OP originally asked but further discussion has led to what we are currently talking about.

[raz]

Each to his own then, Raz.

I know, Hesa. I'm not a vet - I'm as confused as anyone when told different things about having my dog done. Irrelevant anyway - the OP's dog was done weeks ago and he's very happy with the result.

[Are You Serious Jo]

I suppose that I shall get shot down in flames but here goes.

Maybe we should be "Lobbying" to get this procedure made fully legal.

Just stop for a minute and think. No more neighbor disputes, no more council

visits, no more punch ups over barking dogs. Also, remember the case where a

person died after a dispute over a dog.

It's a simple procedure down the throat and takes only a few minutes. The dog's

vocal cords are cauterized and the dog STILL barks but at a soft level that will

not bother the neighbors or anybody else.

I believe this is better answer than euthanasia.

I disagree with this, simply because there are too many people out there who would use it as a first option rather than a last option.

Even as it stands now, people will try "bark" collars but will refuse to put one that delivers a static shock on the dog because it's considered "cruel".

As long as it's done as a last option I don't care, but I agree with the restrictions on it and if anything I'd like them tightened.

So do you see desexing as a last resort and restrictions put in place?

[Julie L]

Seems to me there is a bit of a paradox here, which I think about with the possibility of getting my dog done if training doesn't work. You need to keep the dog quiet for the operation to be successful, for three weeks. The thing is, if you can keep the dog quiet, you can keep the dog quiet!!

Not really. My husband and I have had to pull some really big strings to negotiate working from home for 3 weeks to 'dog-sit'. Pathetic excuse really, when other people think about it... We have been able to alternate it between the 2 of us thankfully, but unless one of us retires - and at 37 that ain't gonna happen, we have to work. I guess we could have taken annual leave, but I don't have enough to be at home every day of the year.

[Julie L]

Each to his own then, Raz. :p

I know, Hesa. I'm not a vet - I'm as confused as anyone when told different things about having my dog done. Irrelevant anyway - the OP's dog was done weeks ago and he's very happy with the result. ;)

Whether you go to a vet, doctor, mechanic, you will always get slightly varying opinions. In the end, my vet gave me advice and if it's more conservative than other vets, even better. If I'm going to put my dog through this I want to make sure we do everything we can to make it successful. I don't want her having to go through it again because we were slack. Three weeks is a small sacrifice to have happy dogs and happy owners. If it's one week too long, I don't really care, as long as we've done all we can.

[raz]

Whether you go to a vet, doctor, mechanic, you will always get slightly varying opinions. In the end, my vet gave me advice and if it's more conservative than other vets, even better. If I'm going to put my dog through this I want to make sure we do everything we can to make it successful. I don't want her having to go through it again because we were slack. Three weeks is a small sacrifice to have happy dogs and happy owners. If it's one week too long, I don't really care, as long as we've done all we can.

Exactly, Julie. If my dogs are debarked I'll be taking the advice from the vet I'm paying for the surgery, not some stranger on the internet who decides he's wrong because he takes a more conservative approach to the healing process.

Out of interest, what did your vet charge. PM me if you prefer. Ta.

[Julie L]

Whether you go to a vet, doctor, mechanic, you will always get slightly varying opinions. In the end, my vet gave me advice and if it's more conservative than other vets, even better. If I'm going to put my dog through this I want to make sure we do everything we can to make it successful. I don't want her having to go through it again because we were slack. Three weeks is a small sacrifice to have happy dogs and happy owners. If it's one week too long, I don't really care, as long as we've done all we can.

Exactly, Julie. If my dogs are debarked I'll be taking the advice from the vet I'm paying for the surgery, not some stranger on the internet who decides he's wrong because he takes a more conservative approach to the healing process.

Out of interest, what did your vet charge. PM me if you prefer. Ta.

The surgery I used was actually a clinic of specialists and I needed a referral to see them. 1 of them didn't particularly want to do the operation and was quite frank about his quote reflecting that. He quoted about $2000 for a full vocal chord removal, which obviously I didn't go for because A. Holy nora that's expensive and B. overkill. His colleague did the cauterising down the throat and quoted $1100 to $1300 but it was $1380 because she ended up staying overnight. She's a staffy sized dog, but I don't know if her size affected the price. When I was ringing around Tweed Heads (over the border when I though it couldn't be done in QLD) I got quotes between $800 and $1300 but none of them seemed to want to do it either.