Physically Handling Your Dog

[Jigsaw]

My dog had her annual check up last week with her vaccinations. She was placed on the table and allowed the vet to listen to her heart and lungs, look at her eyes and teeth, temp taken, be vaccinated and the kennel cough vacc squirted down her nose. Whilst she was not happy she was quiet, compliant and importantly still. I made the remark to the vet that all that handling had paid off. The vet replied that she felt that since positive training (she works in a practice associated with purely positive trainers) had been introduced several years ago she was finding a number of dogs, especially larger breeds coming in that were very difficult to handle for even the most basic treatment without a wrestling match. If I remember correctly at the Brenda Aloff Seminar in Melbourne, Brenda made a similar remark that dogs aren't handled enough and there should be no "no go" areas.

When I worked with a vet over 30 years ago she told me the best thing I could do for any pet I had was to handle it. And she didn't mean petting it. This vet said to open their mouth like giving a tablet (including the finger down the throat), rub your finger inside their ear and look inside it, handle their paws - splaying the toes, tapping the nails, look at their teeth, their nose etc. The dog should be used to being held so you can put drops in their ears or eyes. You should be able to touch their genitals etc. This vet said it makes their job so much easier when a dog is used to being handled and so I've tried to do this with my previous dog who whilst keeping still had a tendency to be very vocal with it, my current dog and my cat!

My dog has eye problems so I've paid particular attention to her getting used to having her muzzle held or her head held and her eyes looked at closely. I'm not here to say anything against positive training, my preference is to use positive methods, it's just an observation made to me by the vet. I guess I'm really just wondering if how much attention is paid to physically handling the dog by owners in general these days. It was briefly mentioned when I attended puppy school but I think there was more emphasis on the importance of teaching your dog to "stand" for the vet.

[MolassesLass]

I have a section in my puppy book for purchasers about doing things daily with their baby puppies to have them ready for veterinarian examination. I agree that it's very important.

[piper]

It depends on the positive trainer, and linking it purely to positive training IMO is not fair.

A large part of the puppy classes I used to run was handling your dog - squeezing toes, lifting ear flaps, tapping teeth, teaching them to take a tablet, teaching them to accept having the scruff grabbed, general "rough" handling such as tapping them on top of the head and reaching straight over the top like some people do to pat a dog. Depending on the clinic if we were able to access a vet table to put them on we did that as well. I also handled the puppies as well as having other class members handle each persons puppy (Not as in pass the pupy - was never a fan of that but as a structured activity with 2 ppl swapping and me supervising then another 2 swapping etc. Took a bit longer but I felt it was far safer for all)

Doing my Cert IV through Delta probably made me more aware of the importance of handling than I was prior to it.

[Lab_Rat]

We dont have problems handling either of our dogs, at home or the vet . Since they were both babies (6y.o kelpie and almost 3 y.o ridgeback) I made sure I did all the "little" things with them - checking their teeth, trimming their nails checking their ears etc.. I dont ever really remember having a struggle or hard time doing these things, I guess I would do it gradually with lots of treats and in short sessions. I can even clean the tartar off my dogs teeth without a problem. Their nails are done horse-style, that is standing up with me holding up each paw and clipping them, I just find it easier with a big dog to have them stand and hold their foot up. Their ears are checked & cleaned regularly. Because of anal gland issues the ridgeback will allow me to tend to that problem also .....Not a nice job though

I am very tactile with our two, and I guess touching, rubbing and massaging your dogs all over is a positive thing - it makes them less sensitive when someone strange or new needs to go over them, like a vet, or a judge.

Strangely though the ridgeback turns into a bundle of nerves when at the vet. She will pant and shake the whole time we are there. But she is no problem to do anything to. I dont know whether its the smell or something else. She has been going there since a pup, did puppy preschool there and hasnt had a "bad" experience there that I am aware of. But I guess theres something about it that worries her. The kelpie is the complete opposite - pulls and barks the whole way from the car to the waiting room, thinks she owns the place and everyone that works there !!

Rat

[TangerineDream]

It's always been important to me to make sure than all my dogs could be handled by humans in any way that was necessary, not just because they are show dogs, but to assist in vets visits etc...all my dogs have always been 100% compliant - both the Dobes and the GSP's (also because they know what's expected of them in each setting) and my vet is astounded that Tango (for an entire male) is as complaint as he is - he comments that because I am alpha and I have taught him 'manners' it has a lot to do with it....all of my dogs would have their nails clipped and would lie on their backs to have their teeth scaled - it works well in establishing an alpha relationship also - I have always handled my pups extensively from day one of them coming home - handling them all over so they are used to it - it also ensures that a dog is less likely to react with surprise if 'grabbed' in an unusual place by a child, so good insurance there.. I'm very positive to Tango, but there are my rules and they must be followed....I'm positive till I need to become firm and get my way....

Edited April 13, 2009 by TangerineDream

[poodlefan]

Teaching a dog to tolerate handling has been on my dog club's syllabus since I joined it over 11 years ago.

It's not just for vet work either. With the number of high maintenance small breeds at our club on the increase, I make a point of telling puppy owners to start getting their dog professionally groomed (if that is their intention) as soon a possible.

Nothing worse for a groomer to face than a 7 to 8 month old pup that hasn't been brushed or handled.

[Rappie]

Getting dogs used to being handled, particularly being gently restrained is very important. It's not just for the vets benefit, but for owners as well because they will need to administer medications, or clean wound and so on.

I work with positive reinforcement - I don't think that in itself is the problem, but it's often not used well by owners. I don't think pets should be expected to LIKE what we do to them, but they should learn to tolerate it, and in teaching them to do that we should make it worth their while (reward good behaviour). It's also very useful for dogs to be taught to wear a muzzle even if they should never need one.

I don't see many dogs that have actually be taught to accept things, mainly dogs who you can do thing to. Generally speaking, owners have very little concept of how to safely restrain their animals for various types of examination (ie. keeping wayward teeth away from my hands). It is unfortunately common for owners to present me with their bouncy Labrador and then take a few steps back and hold the end of the lead while it cavorts around the consult room, then get frustrated with me when I ask them to hold their pet so I may look at it. I think again its one of those situations where the average DOL member is probably miles ahead of the average member of the dog owning public...

[Kelpie-i]

Restraints, handling and examinations should be a major part of any puppy class curriculum....and not for just one week. These exercises should be focussed on at the beginning (or end) of each class and owners encouraged to practice each day.

It depends on the positive trainer, and linking it purely to positive training IMO is not fair

work with positive reinforcement- I don't think that in itself is the problem

Positive reinforcement is but one forth of the reinforcent quadrant, therefore it cannot scientifically be blamed for this problem. Even compulsion type techniques are accompanied by positive reinforcement (treat/pat giving) to increase behaviour. The word "positive" should not be used in an emotional sense when talking dog training and reinforcement.

The problem stems from the no touch "luring" or "inducement" techniques that are used by many trainers. Don't get me wrong, I use luring all the time and I love it, but it must be balanced out with various restraints and handling (touchie-feelie) exercises as well.

Edited April 13, 2009 by Kelpie-i

[TangerineDream]

I like to be able to impress the vet when they want to get a dog down on the floor and you tell the dog to lie down, then grab 2 feet, manoevre it into the required position and sit there calmly while the vet does whatever they need to do while the dog lies there.....

Many years ago I had a bitch have an ultrasound down at Werribee, the vet asked 2 nurses to come in and hold her in the position they wanted - I suggested they not and they let me get her into position and then I held 1 front foot up and told her to stay - they were astounded that they could actually ultrasound a Dobermann being held by 1 foot on a cold table

[Sam&Saki]

I thought this was normal practice to teach at puppy class?

We went through the whole touching feet, looking in mouth, ears, running hands all over dog's body, etc in puppy class - eventually the pups were tested by having to allow others owners to touch them the same way as their own.

[Evolving]

I have never worked much on mine he is just well behaved when it comes to any handling.

The groomers say he is an angle and love him, he will let the vet do anything they want and even used to let me change dressings on a hurt let with no fuss at all.

[Rappie]

Teaching it at puppy class, and having owner recognise it as both being important and something that requires ongoing effort is not always the same.

I ran into this today. A dog with a torn dew claw, I wanted to examine it's foot.

"Oh, he doesn't like his nails clipped"

Have you tried teaching him to accept having his feet touched?

"Oh yes, they taught us that at puppy preschool but he didn't like it, so we never do it".

[Kelpie-i]

I thought this was normal practice to teach at puppy class?

S&S, yes in most puppy classes this is normal, but I would dare say there are some that don't.

Touching and getting puppies used to being touched and examined is very good, but teaching a dog to accept restraint also important.

Many years ago I had a bitch have an ultrasound down at Werribee, the vet asked 2 nurses to come in and hold her in the position they wanted - I suggested they not and they let me get her into position and then I held 1 front foot up and told her to stay - they were astounded that they could actually ultrasound a Dobermann being held by 1 foot on a cold table

Well done Tangerine, this is excellent.

[Kelpie-i]

Teaching it at puppy class, and having owner recognise it as both being important and something that requires ongoing effort is not always the same

Absolutely correct Rappie and I totally understand your 'pain', this is why it is crucial that the instructor emphasis the importance of teaching acceptance of these things rather than just using the exercise to fill in 10 mins of a puppy class.

[biker girl]

I like to be able to impress the vet when they want to get a dog down on the floor and you tell the dog to lie down, then grab 2 feet, manoevre it into the required position and sit there calmly while the vet does whatever they need to do while the dog lies there.....

Many years ago I had a bitch have an ultrasound down at Werribee, the vet asked 2 nurses to come in and hold her in the position they wanted - I suggested they not and they let me get her into position and then I held 1 front foot up and told her to stay - they were astounded that they could actually ultrasound a Dobermann being held by 1 foot on a cold table

I did something quite similar........my OH & I were having glamour photos taken of ourselves & our Gsds. The photographer wanted Seth (42kg male Gsd) to lay down in a cretain area, so I dropped him (Seth.....not the photographer ) & then dragged him by 2 feet to place him just so.

The photographer was amazed that I could do that to a male Gsd. I said to him "I can do that with MY Gsds"

I handle my baby Gsds right from birth, touching feet/toes etc & strongly recommend to puppy owners to handle their new pups the same so that their vet will love them for it

[skip]

Makes me cringe to read this topic as I was at the vets just recently.

I have 2 dogs that I did not get as puppies. One little girl is good and tolerant.

It took a while for the male to be more confident around me, specially when I had a paper or a belt for instance in my hands. And then we had him being friendly to other people. But at the vets he still is fearful and panics. He is not agressive but more terrified. This vet was good with him and suggested I get him used to the blanket as a tool to hold him for treatment. This was the method he preferred to use for smaller dogs. But I confess the dog was so upset he still released his glands everywhere in about 2 seconds.

At least the dog was done without much fuss and quickly. Another vet a few weeks ago did not want to attempt to do him and wanted to sedate him instead. This vet suggested I get others to hold him in this method? I need to work on getting him checked by lots of people at training. Thou it seems at training most people he sucks up to and likes. Just the odd person now and again he is scared of?

Is it a matter of making it uncomfortable while being held and then rewarding him for accepting the discomfort? However I try to do it, I would only use positive methods. I don't really know of another way to improve his behaviour.

I am a bit late to get the puppy training in but what do you suggest for the older dog?

[Cosmolo]

Definitely an important part of any puppy class- i cover it every week and get owners to do it in front of me so i can see the dogs progress. I have however seen puppy classes where owners are told specifically not to touch their puppies- everything is to be done with a lure only.

[huski]

Teaching it at puppy class, and having owner recognise it as both being important and something that requires ongoing effort is not always the same.

I ran into this today. A dog with a torn dew claw, I wanted to examine it's foot.

"Oh, he doesn't like his nails clipped"

Have you tried teaching him to accept having his feet touched?

"Oh yes, they taught us that at puppy preschool but he didn't like it, so we never do it".

Just with the above example, Daisy has always been a very stubborn dogs and one of those puppies who if guided or forced into doing something she didn't want to do, would growl and carry on. She never wanted to be picked up etc and was like this from the day we bought her home.

With lots of work, she is very good now, and I can pick her up, place her, physically move her around etc and she is 1000x more cuddly now too (not from forcing her to want cuddles as I don't think that's possible, but it happened as she matured).

But she HATES having her nails cut. I have no problem touching her paws, or inspecting between her pads at any time except when I have clippers in my hand. I have been thinking of getting a dremel as I think filing them down might be more pleasant for her.

It is the same with her ears - no problem with inspecting them or touching them unless she knows I am going to clean them (and somehow she knows the second I get up to get the bottle). She is a real squirmer! She has gotten better the more I do it, but she can still play up a bit.

I feel embarrassed saying she hates having her nails clipped and her ears cleaned as I'm sure had I known more I could have desensitized her better, but some owners do make their best effort and still have a dog who hates getting those things done.

Edited April 13, 2009 by huski

[Erny]

Touching and getting puppies used to being touched and examined is very good, but teaching a dog to accept restraint also important.

Completely agree K-i . And just for clarification, I think it deserves to be mentioned to anyone reading that "restraint" isn't just about holding the dog on a lead. It is also about putting the dog in a certain position - and that could be laying down flat, or on its back, with its legs stretched, etc. etc. etc. Because my previous girl (bless her cotton socks) was taught this, we were easily able to procure an excellent heart xray for which no sedation or GA was required. Subsequent ultra sounds were conducted this way also (although they were more difficult to read because she was nervous and kept shivering). I'm working on this sort of thing with my 10mo boy now and I was very pleased when I was able to lay him down on the clinic floor for the Vet to shave some hair around a facial puncture wound with the electric clippers, and he stayed there. Mind you, I was all but laying on top of him as it was his first intro to electric clippers (although he was already accustomed to the dremel), but he was at least wagging his tail during the whole process

I do think though that "compulsion" training has become a dirty word amongst some camps and it seems to have extended to all fields of 'man-handling' dogs. When working at B & T kennels, I could fairly easily and quickly tell which dogs were used to handling and which weren't. Those not were generally very resistent to the hand and opposition reflex was often much stronger.

Edited April 13, 2009 by Erny

[MolassesLass]

B & T kennels

*Pauline Hanson voice* Please explain?