Great 11 Mo Bc

[Reddii]

I would get rid of the prong collar & please don't use a shock collar. A border is a soft dog & will fall apart with harsh training methods.

Each to their own but IMO a properly used prong and e-collar aren't harsh methods ;)

No, maybe not. But unless I'm mistaken you also can't use them at most training clubs - especially if you want to get into agility.

I know my boy would fall apart with corrections from a prong or shock collar - for him a raised voice is a harsh correction. Each to their own, but IMO BC's don't tend to need physical correction - harsh or otherwise.

[huski]

No, maybe not. But unless I'm mistaken you also can't use them at most training clubs - especially if you want to get into agility.

I know my boy would fall apart with corrections from a prong or shock collar - for him a raised voice is a harsh correction. Each to their own, but IMO BC's don't tend to need physical correction - harsh or otherwise.

I definitely agree some dogs wouldn't need these tools to work well for you. But for the right dog, with the right guidance, they are great tools. E-collars in my limited experience aren't used to issue a harsh correction, but used as an effective way to communicate with the dog, the stim I felt was lighter than a static shock.

I understand clubs won't allow you to use them (although I know a few club instructors who use them outside of training grounds!) but if the goal is to get the dog working without them I don't see the problem. After all they are just tools not a complete training program.

[luvsdogs]

To get him over his car phobia I would take him to a road with a park alongside & walk him far enough away from the traffic that he doesn't react to it. If he only looks at the cars & doesn't lunge tell him he's a good boy & give him a food treat. Over time you would gradually get closer to the traffic & reward for not reacting. If he does you've gone too quickly & need to back up. It may take several weeks to be able to walk him near cars.

[Nekhbet]

A quick question about prey drive, I've read some of what K9 has written, when he says "tie-out" does he mean I tie the dog back (with a harness probably) and tease the dog so it can't get the toy? Is this how you build drive, by frustrating the dog?

I'd like to keep him entire because I'd feel really bad if any of the theories on increased risk of cancer are true, and because I'd like to get him trained as a herder (Both our families have farms, not many animals yet though)

if you want him to her you better start now - I would focus on it before the agility training. Dont chop and change methods decide what you want to do with the dog and get started before you end up with a dog that knows bits and pieces but really will not give you titles/work.

The tie out is tying the dog up and teasing so the dog cannot reach the toy. Frustration builds want, which in turn builds the drive to that toy/s. remember also his tug toy will not be something he gets unless he is playing prey games with you. I like jute/fabric tugs better then ball on a string personally, but its whatever floats the dogs boat. You have to build drive before you can harness it into training, but remember as well you HAVE to teach control as you teach through prey.

[Azazyel]

Thanks for that. I will give it a go for the next few weeks. I had been doing similar (since he was a puppy), but have just learnt to make a trigger word, limit sessions, and to tie back with harness (Saw someone mention tyre tube which sounds good).

I took him to the park yesterday and he was good until he saw another dog he really wanted to plaAAaAAaaAAaaAAaAAaAAy with (Thats what it sounds like he was saying). I just held him back on the long leash until he got bored then the tug started moving fast and we started playing again. That should make him think other dogs are boring right?

[poodlefan]

Either that or you'll build his frustration levels and ramp up his excitement in other dogs. Its exactly the same technique you're using to build his prey drive isn't it?

Why do you want him to think other dogs are boring?

Edited April 15, 2009 by poodlefan

[Azazyel]

Because I am not all that exciting? What should I be doing instead? I suppose waiting till he finds me more exciting would be better.

[poodlefan]

Because I am not all that exciting? What should I be doing instead? I suppose waiting till he finds me more exciting would be better.

You need to train in less distracting environments and work up to high levels of distraction.

I doubt you'll ever be more exciting to him than sheep. If you want him to herd, you need to build focus and control in low distraction and work up. However, I know zip about herding so will leave that to the experts.

[Azazyel]

Yeah, I figured. But I was already there (Not normally many dogs there, or so I thought). Lets see if this quote works this time.

[dogdude]

IMO, teaching your dog to be "dog nuetral" is ideal.

If your dog is over excited about having doggy play, then feeding his habit will only reinforce it.

The second Balabanov dvd touches on destraction training using prey drive.

The two dvds are ideal to get a start in drive training, or sign up for a K9force distance learning module.

[Azazyel]

We are building a house so the OH won't let me (And I shouldn't anyway) invest so much for K9force. I know it would be money very well spent, but I don't think I can at the moment. I'll see if the DVDs are decently priced, or I will sell a kidney or something.

Edit: Is the DVD the CTS obediance without conflict, pt1 and 2?

Edited April 15, 2009 by Azazyel

[dogdude]

Hi Azazyel

If your dog is getting totally exausted after a few tugs, then you are doing it for too long.

My dog gets to tug for all of about 5-10 seconds normally, sometimes less.

You should put more effort into him chasing it, than catching it.

You should also only let him catch it when he is showing maximum effort in doing so, otherwise you will be just desensitising him to it.

[dogdude]

Edit

: Is the DVD the CTS obediance without conflict, pt1 and 2?

Yes, and you may have to sell both kidneys to pay for them.

[Azazyel]

He has never gotten tired while we have done it recently (When he was a puppy I didn't know any better, so I let him walk off and play with the toy). But since we started he has been much less full of energy. Thanks for all your help. I'll really try to get K9force, everyone is recommending them. KRudd might pay for it, depends how our house goes (Getting settlement in the next few weeks, so we need a big as possible deposit). Maybe they offers interest free payment plans...

Edit: Is the Leerburg Building Drive and Focus any good?

Edit2: And now that I heave read more about clickers I will order one tonight.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Azazyel

[ness]

There are plenty of good dog trainers in Perth (especially agility) I would make an effort to start club training with him. Agility Dog Club of WA run a fantastic training program.