muffinmclay Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 We brought our 9 week old labrador pup home on Sunday and had a crate & lots of kongs/chew toys at the ready. For the past two days, every time he is put in the crate he howls and wines and barks non stop for up to 30 mins, when he then lies down and sleeps for 10 mins and then the crying starts again. We've tried rewarding him when he is quiet, but any attention we pay to him just makes him start again. Just now he is asleep in the crate (finally) but the phone rang and as soon as I got up he started again and is still going. He is soooo not interested in any of the hundreds of chew toys he has - we have stuffed kongs with things like cooked bacon, cheese, kibble, liver treats and cooked sausage, rawhide bones, pigs ears, rope toys, nylabones - no interest!!! I am at my wits end - very tempted to just give up this crate thing and let him be where he wants. Only problem with that is that he then pees on the floor. We have done everything according to Dr Ian Dunbar's books and can't figure out what else to do! He is fed, watered, well exercised and has peed/pooped before he is placed in the crate. We pack the toys in there, with a t-shirt with my scent on it and even a heat pack. AM I INSANE? WHAT AM I DOING WRONG? The only good thing is that we put him in the crate next to the bed at night, and he only whines to go out to the toilet - usually twice a night (about every 3 hrs). Do I just let him do his thing during the day and crate him at night, and follow him around every waking moment waiting for him to need to pee? I have to go to work tomorrow (i've had a few days off) and he will be put in a long term confinement area for approx 4 hrs, but i'm so worried that he will just cry the whole time. I really want him to get used to his own company and to be comfortable for short/longer periods on his own. Sorry for the long winded post - i've looked everywhere on this site and others and can't find an answer to my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 How much 'free' time does he have? What mental excercise is he getting? does he actually get enough physical exercise? if he is getting enough exercise, he should just flop and sleep after it! How long is he expected to stay in the crate for??? I have not done crate training, but I would not expect a baby puppy to stay in a crate for very long at all to start with. A crate should be the ONE place he gets food, and his favourite toy, and his bed....so a crate is associated with GOOD things.. not a place that takes him away from all that is good. One hint... only put in one or two toys... packing them in achieves nothing. Rotate toys every couple of days..just use a couple at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) Patience grasshopper Ignore him when he whines. Even put a blanket over the crate when he whines. As soon as he's quiet for 1 minute let him out, play with him for a few minutes, then put him back in. As soon as he's quiet for 1 minute, repeat, repeat, repeat. Gradually lengthening the time he's quiet in his crate. If he goes to sleep, let him sleep. When he wakes up - he has to be quiet for 1 minute before you let him out. It's worth persisting - having a dog that will comfortably stay in it's crate is incredibly handy. Oh - don't wait for him to cry in the night - set your alarm and take him out before he has a chance to learn that crying gets him out of the crate. Edited April 7, 2009 by Luke W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffinmclay Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 He is being exercised for approx 30 minutes after he wakes and pees. I try to get him to run around and play, but after about 30 mins he just flops out on the floor so i'm assuming he has had enough. We have a ball he likes, and he loves the rope toys so we play chasies etc with these. I never thought about setting the alarm at night - thanks! Also, i think I might have bought the wrong crate. It seems to be an ok size - he hasn't peed in it and definately has enough room to move around. But it is one of those soft collapsable ones and he bites it when frustrated. Do you think i should get a wire one? So he just had a 30 min sleep in the crate, then woke and whined so I waited approx 30 seconds then took him outside for a pee, but he didn't do anything and just lay down on the grass so after 3 mins I brought him back in and put him back in the crate again, with the idea that after another 15 mins i'll take him back out again. Is this the right thing to do? Of course, he is now barking his head off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 He is being exercised for approx 30 minutes after he wakes and pees. I try to get him to run around and play, but after about 30 mins he just flops out on the floor so i'm assuming he has had enough. We have a ball he likes, and he loves the rope toys so we play chasies etc with these. I never thought about setting the alarm at night - thanks! Also, i think I might have bought the wrong crate. It seems to be an ok size - he hasn't peed in it and definately has enough room to move around. But it is one of those soft collapsable ones and he bites it when frustrated. Do you think i should get a wire one? So he just had a 30 min sleep in the crate, then woke and whined so I waited approx 30 seconds then took him outside for a pee, but he didn't do anything and just lay down on the grass so after 3 mins I brought him back in and put him back in the crate again, with the idea that after another 15 mins i'll take him back out again. Is this the right thing to do? Of course, he is now barking his head off... When he stops barking for 30s, let him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffinmclay Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 When he stops barking for 30s, let him out. Ok - he stopped - i waited one min, then let him out. We went outside, he peed, we played - it's been about 30 mins and he's flopped out on the floor next to me. My next plan was to give him his lunch in the crate then pee/poo again and another sleep. Am I on the right track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 You could also try just having the crate door open, so he can come & go using it as a den, feed him in there & give him toys in there with the door open, so he comes to see it as 'his' den and not a lock up, then close the door for five minutes here & there, and let him out again. He won't come to associate being in his crate with being 'punished' or separated for what seems like a long time. then gradually increase the time spent in there, this can all happen over a few days, won't take him long to enjoy his little nest. fifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I think it sucks too, so why bother ? Go to www.dealsdirect.com.au & buy one of those big pens for about $50/60 or get 2 or 3 sets of Bunning wire compost thingy's ($20 each & join them all together with garden ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffinmclay Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 It still sucks! I tried feeding him his lunch in there, but he just went in, took a mouthful of biscuits, came out and spat them out on the floor and ate them there. He really isn't very interested in toys or treats, so that doesn't work. If I leave the door open and put all his toys/food in there he just chooses to ignore the toys and food anyway. I waited till he was quiet for 1 min, then let him out for a pat and then put him back in. Did 1 min again, then 2 mins, then 3 mins. Each time i put him back in he barks for 10 mins before he is quiet - isn't he supposed to bark for less time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 It still sucks! I tried feeding him his lunch in there, but he just went in, took a mouthful of biscuits, came out and spat them out on the floor and ate them there. He really isn't very interested in toys or treats, so that doesn't work. If I leave the door open and put all his toys/food in there he just chooses to ignore the toys and food anyway. I waited till he was quiet for 1 min, then let him out for a pat and then put him back in. Did 1 min again, then 2 mins, then 3 mins. Each time i put him back in he barks for 10 mins before he is quiet - isn't he supposed to bark for less time? Patience grasshopper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmoo Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 You need lots of patience for crate training. Your pup wont necessarily like being in a crate straight away. Put him in his crate only a few times per day - but only letting him out when he is quiet. Do the smae thing over and over again all day is tiring and boring for your pup. You want to create a positive association with the crate, any "bad experiences" that happen now will be hard to change. Also, the soft collapsible crates are good for grown dogs who no longer chew due to teething or general puppydom. Buy a proper wire crate to use and use the collapsible for when you take the dog on overnighters, visits etc when he is old enough. You must be patient, the more frsutrated you feel the more your pup will "misbehave". If it is becoming too much, stop for a day or so and then come back to the crate training. Dont increase the time he is in the crate too soon. When he is quiet for 1 min x 10 times in a row then increase to 1 1/2 mins x 10 times in a row etc. Remember not to do this all in one day...patience is the key.....and it will take time. Crate training is a real advantage for any dog and their owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 If he flops down asleep anywhere but the crate then pick him up and put him in there. Patience is the key - crate training does happen quickly necessarily. And with a lab - lay off all the cooked bacon, cheese, kibble, liver treats and cooked sausage, rawhide bones, pigs ears - this is puppy junk food. Personally would not feed bacon, pig's ears only ocassionally at that age (salt and fat) and same with cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockets Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I had that Grasshopper, the world was coming to an end when I put Gussy in the crate, all mine are crate trained he now goes into his crate willingly and remains quiet until I let him out!!! The patience will pay off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Are you covering the crate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Also, the soft collapsible crates are good for grown dogs who no longer chew due to teething or general puppydom. Buy a proper wire crate to use and use the collapsible for when you take the dog on overnighters, visits etc when he is old enough. Agree. You may also find that the puppy is happier in a wire crate, I find that the soft crates can be too hot for everyday use and although they're good for taking to shows etc. because they're much lighter, easier to erect/ dismantle etc. the wire crates are far more suitable for use at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffinmclay Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 I just have to say, i really appreciate you all taking the time to respond - i wasn't expecting anyone to care! I am off to the pet shop this afternoon to see if I can get a wire crate (my husband is going to murder me - i spent $160 on the crate i've got - anyone want to buy a hardly used crate *lol*). Pup had two good sleeps in the crate today while I either lay on the lounge on the other side of the room or worked on the computer in another room. After an initial 20 mins each time of fierce yapping, he quitened down and slept for about an hour before waking and whining to be let out. I waited till he was quiet, took him outside for a pee and then had a play. I know i'm supposed to use the crate not only for sleeping but also for chewing toys, but he isn't interested in doing much chewing at the moment - seems to want to just pee and sleep. He doesn't even really eat that much. We have him on what the breeder was feeding, which is the science diet puppy biscuits three times a day but he barely eats half of his recommended daily amount. Should I be worried? Questions, questions, questions - i dont think i asked this many when my kids were babies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeJane Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 is there a particular food that he really likes? Stuff the food in a kong, tie the kong to the end of the crate, so he has to go in to chew the kong. Also whenever he goes in there by himself, lots of praises. I understand that your pup doesnt have high food drive but is there anything that he loves?? When i train my pup, i always get into this excited and happy gesture (totally like a monkey, swining my arms and hopping) when i want to get her into the crate, she gets excited too and wants to know what's in there with me being so happy. So she happily go into her crate, then i reward her a big treat. Now... whenever she see me tucking into her treat box or holding her kong, she will go in immediately, and sits there patiently.... It was a frustrating process but needs a lot of PATIENCE.. but the outcome is rewarding.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I actually only use my crates overnight and if I'm swapping dogs around for some reason. The only time you really need to put your puppy in the crate is overnight and when you're unable to supervise him, if there's someone there to watch him he can stay out most of the time. Make sure you feed him in the crate so he associates it with good things and always give him a treat when you put him in it even if it's only for a few minutes. He should also be spending plenty of time outside playing and exploring. A lot of puppies don't eat a lot when they first go to their new homes, part of it is the stress of adapting to a new environment, but the main reason is that there's no longer any competition from littermates. Make sure that you don't leave food down for him, if he doesn't eat his meal in 10/15 minutes take it away and don't offer him anything else until next time. You could add a little raw chicken mince to his dry for variety or make one meal a raw chicken wing. If he starts leaving his lunch cut him down to two feeds a day. You will get there, it's early days yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Hmm, I have a 9.5 week old puppy myself, a doberman, but we decided in the end not to crate him. He now sleeps in the laundry at night from 10pm until 7am, for the last week he hasn't woken me up to go to the toilet, he just pees for ages in the morning. But it was a different story when we got him.. He was only 7.5 weeks, and howled when we first put him in the laundry that night, so eventually, feeling bad for the neighbours we moved his bed into our room and he spent 4 nights sleeping in there. We didn't get much sleep and after the first week we were practically zombies. Then we moved him back into the laundry and although he still whined for a bit, he no longer did the howling thing so we figured he wasn't petrified like he must have been on the first night and just ignored him, and sure enough, within half an hour he stopped. He would sometimes whine in the middle of the night so I'd get up and take him to the toilet, and then when I put him back in his bed he'd cry again for about 15 mins, then go back to sleep. Now however, when we go to bed we just put him in there, say bed and good night-no fuss, and he doesn't make a sound. In the morning at 7 I go in there and he'll be awake on his bed, very excited to see us. We have to run outside because he's busting to go to the toilet once he wakes up but haven't had any accidents. If he's in the house, he's in the same room as me so I can watch him, so there are no accidents. One thing we had to do though, we have to make sure he doesn't sleep before we go to bed. After dinner we try our hardest to keep him awake until bed time which is about 3-4 hours later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incavale Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 WHAT AM I DOING WRONG? Nothing. The pup is testing u. If he wins, you are his/her's. If u win he/she is yours. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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