Growling

[Markman]

hey everyone,

My 9 week old Border Collie has started playing a bit more "energetically" with our jack russel, and will now nip back and run around etc, which is great, it wears her out before bed, i know theyre just playing cos if my pup yelps the Jack Russel will stop and lick her hahah.

Anyway, shes met a few of our familys many dogs, and with some of the bigger more boisterous (labrador and kelpie) shes learnt that when she growls they will leave her alone if theyre getting too much for her. Problem is, now if i catch her digging or chewing on something she shouldnt and i pick her up to put her somwhere else, she growls and snarls at me thinking i will let her go. Of course i dont and she stops after a few seconds, but i really dont think its the right behaviour, especially if shes still doing it when shes a lot bigger and could nip and really do some damage.

Should i just persist until she learns her growling and nipping wont get rid of me, or is there something more i can do?

Every time we play or do obedience shes fine, never aggressive, but im slightly worried about when disciplining her.

Thanks everyone.

[Dogsfevr]

Anyway, shes met a few of our familys many dogs, and with some of the bigger more boisterous (labrador and kelpie) shes learnt that when she growls they will leave her alone if theyre getting too much for her

She shouldnt have to fend for herself.She is a pup & being totally overwhelmed.She is only 9 weeks old afterall.

As her owner you need to pay more attention & remove her to a safe zone when it becomes all to much otherwise you are setting her up for failure.

[Markman]

Im well aware im her owner she has my undivided attention when around the other dogs and will pick her up if need be and move her away, shes fine around the dogs unless they pounce around near her.

I wouldnt never put my pup near a dog i dont trust and think socialisation with other dogs, one at a time, is important at her age

[all that glitters]

I'm also eager to see the suggestions to your question - as I am still learning, and I wonder sometimes whether to ignore or perform a correction in certain situations?

[Dogsfevr]

Im well aware im her owner she has my undivided attention when around the other dogs and will pick her up if need be and move her away, shes fine around the dogs unless they pounce around near her.

I wouldnt never put my pup near a dog i dont trust and think socialisation with other dogs, one at a time, is important at her age

Yes its important but even in your own words of what you are watching

Anyway, shes met a few of our familys many dogs, and with some of the bigger more boisterous (labrador and kelpie) shes learnt that when she growls they will leave her alone if theyre getting too much for her

Your dog is 9 weeks & big boistrous dogs are very overwhelming ,Labs can be big powerful dogs & alot of dog for someone still little.If your dog is reacting its had enough & needs time out other wise it will learn that this behaviour is acceptable & it will only get worse with age.

Its not a case or ignore or correct but reading the body language & realizing that its becoming all to much & its time out either for the pup or the adults.

[poodlefan]

I'm a little confused here.. .you say you are "picking her up to put her somewhere else" but are worried about her reaction to your "discipline".

For a 9 week old pup, distraction from unwanted behaviour is probably a better long term bet than discpline for it. Give her stuff she can chew and a place she can dig or other activities she enjoys.

What it sounds like to me is that your pup is learning that she has to protect herself.. from bigger dogs and from you.

It's your job to ensure that she's not over faced and in position where she feels threated and protective. Its also wise at her tender age to teach her that she doesn't have to protect herself from you. All approaches and all handling should be something she welcomes from you.

You won't be able to pick her up easily for ever. Call her away from something you don't like and reward her.

Does she react positively to patting/stroking? That is the kind of handling I'd suggest you do a lot of at this age with her.

[Miranda]

I agree with settrlvr you need to remove the puppy from the situation BEFORE it gets too much for her. As you said your dog is learning that a growl stops the dogs from hassling her and what they learn at this age can stay with them for life. Attempting to socialise a small puppy with large boisterous dogs isn't a very good idea IMO, if she's bullied at this age and forced to deal with it herself it will have consequences when she's an adult. Socialising a puppy with other dogs is important, but you need to choose the dogs very carefully indeed and avoid any negative interactions.

[persephone]

What it sounds like to me is that your pup is learning that she has to protect herself.. from bigger dogs and from you.

It's your job to ensure that she's not over faced and in position where she feels threated and protective. Its also wise at her tender age to teach her that she doesn't have to protect herself from you. All approaches and all handling should be something she welcomes from you.

I'm afraid I agree

Your baby puppy is learning that growling gets results...even if it was unintentional the first time/s!

Not a good habit to get into -

[Markman]

Well she has plenty of toys, and she loves a pat and a rub and a treat when she does the right thing. i think everyones gotten the wrong picture as to whats actually happening... shouldnt of posted

[poodlefan]

Well she has plenty of toys, and she loves a pat and a rub and a treat when she does the right thing. i think everyones gotten the wrong picture as to whats actually happening... shouldnt of posted

So what's your take on what's going on then?

[Markman]

Never mind, ill ask the trainer next time i see her

[huski]

Never mind, ill ask the trainer next time i see her

PF is just trying to understand the situation better, MM.

When you post on a public forum like DOL, sometimes you will get responses that you don't agree with, such is life No reason to get upset over it.

Edited April 7, 2009 by huski

[Markman]

Im not getting upset, but its hard to explain to everyone what the problem is, but i meet with a trainer weekly so ill ask her about it.

[persephone]

Well she has plenty of toys, and she loves a pat and a rub and a treat when she does the right thing.

.................... and all that is wonderful and has NOTHING to do with how she reacts when she feels threatened

She can have her own palace... hot & cold running kongs... and still feel as if she is threatened.

unless they pounce around near her.

when she growls they will leave her alone if theyre getting too much for her.

and...

if i catch her digging or chewing on something she shouldnt and i pick her up to put her somwhere else, she growls and snarls at me thinking i will let her go. Of course i dont and she stops after a few seconds, but i really dont think its the right behaviour, especially if shes still doing it when shes a lot bigger and could nip and really do some damage.

Growling is instinctual... she has no other way of responding....BUT if then it actually works... dogs and people back off- then she may get the idea of growling more often, and for other reasons.... as you have found .

The idea peple have been trying to explain is that, as her 'pack leader'... YOU should be keeping the other dogs in line!

it is not HER job... plus bouncy bigger dogs could cause her injury....only takes a second .

Meeting/playtimes should be well choreographed.... with older dogs kept calm and settled,and not bouncing.

Pup should be handled often, and always with a pleasant ending

May I also recommend you and your pup start THIS PROGRAM

It will gently re-enforce you as pup's leader... and give her some brain exercise each day

Hopefully your trainer will be of help to you... As words can be mis understood it is usually easier if the person trying to help sees the behaviour in person

Edited April 7, 2009 by persephone