Cane Toads

[Crisovar]

Question though why do frogs seem to like being carried around by dogs, if they were smart they would not swim in the dog water each night and get carted around by the dogs, get rescued and come back again.

My dogs don't kill frogs they just carry them around, the frogs go "blawk" from inside their mouths and the little tails of the doggies wag as the sashay back and forth with their new toy.

[lappiemum]

thats why its best to pick them up individually and freeze them - that way you can ID them properly.

Toads and frogs look pretty different to me

There are a number of frog species that are commonly mistaken for toads - its always best to double check.

[lappiemum]

I just now had this same damn thing happen. Taking Leela, our 5 month old GSD for her nightly walk around the yard, and of course she tries to grab every thing that moves, (mostly toads). I have her on a leash, and I carry a torch with us, telling her to "leave it" and make sure she does. She decided to sit in the garden fixated on something, I couldn't see what, and then "POUNCE" like a cat and then spat out a small toad.

Shes ok, but it looks like more "toad patrols" tomorrow night for me and my daughter. She carries the bucket, and I carry the Dettol spray. We got 13 fair sized ones the other night, and living on acreage with a swamp down the back, its never ending. I know you shouldn't spray them because some say its its "cruel", but what they can do is far worse and they are a totally useless pest, so I sleep fine at night regarding that point. Leela stays inside at night, buts its a shame when we have to go and get her and drag her inside as night falls, because thats when the pests come out of course. On the other hand our green tree frog population is exploding, great to see.

Might have to try the netting suggestions etc on the fence bottoms to try to keep them out.

Hoo Roo

Hi RW. Your post is interesting. I mentioned my thesis before, and my research looks at why some introduced (aka ferral) species are fine to have around and why others are demonised, irrespective of the environmental impact that each species has. For example, while there is indisputable evidence to show that cane toads have had a negative impact on their local biological webs and are thus consider (rightly) as a pest species; other introduced species, who may have similar environmental impacts are not so despised. Why? A good example of this are brumbies (wild horses) - they are part of Australia's historic folklore and culture, and loved by many. Yet environmentally, their impact on the alpine heathlands in NSW and VIC has been devastating. Or the continued introductions of trout to Tasmanian rivers - by the parks and wildlife dept-(where they are the fish equivalent of lions in the savvanah,and have wiped out native fish and vertabrate populations. How about the ubiquitous gecko in north QLD? These guys are actually asian house geckos, and are quitely forcing out the native geckos to the point where people now think the asian version is the native. Or the lovely goldfinch bird? Beautiful song, lovely to look at, and yes, taking up valuable nesting opportunities, forcing out the locals and eating native insects.

My point is that we tend to emotionalise those species we have the most contact with - and in the case of canetoads, its ok to dettol them, or shoot them with air rifles (something I know that a non-DOLer advocates) or practice golf swings with, because they are 'bad'. But no-one who loves animals would do that to a horse, would they?

Dispose of cane toads humanely, and please make sure that they aren't toads (like the the painted borrowing frog, or the native toadlet). I know its easy to despise them, because they are 'ugly' and venoumous, but not animal deserves to die in agony.

And yes, put up netting and seal the areas they may get into. They are a fact of life now, and its better to just put in place proceedures to deal with them.

Hope this helps some people.

[LuvBella]

Can you keep her inside at night, and on leash with you if you have to take her out at night?

The problem with that is she has a dog door to use. so she can go out as she pleases. She loves going out to play, and its there during the day while we work, so i would be loathe to take it off her.

I have just resigned myself to a nightly patrol for toads, and i go sit outside and watch bella if its night time and she goes out

[Baby Dragon]

Can you keep her inside at night, and on leash with you if you have to take her out at night?

The problem with that is she has a dog door to use. so she can go out as she pleases. She loves going out to play, and its there during the day while we work, so i would be loathe to take it off her.

I have just resigned myself to a nightly patrol for toads, and i go sit outside and watch bella if its night time and she goes out

Can you block the dog door off at night? Or crate her indoors at night?

If she must go out at night off leash then you're doing the right thing by watching her. Personally I would exercise her as much as possible in the cooler hours of the day rather than at night though (like before or after work) that way she wouldn't need to go outside at night except to potty, and that can be done on leash. If she is getting exercise in the cooler hours of the day, she doesn't need to be exercised outside at night too. If she wants to play at night, a game of fetch indoors, or a kong indoors works well

Edited April 13, 2009 by Baby Dragon

[LuvBella]

Can you block the dog door off at night? Or crate her indoors at night?

If she must go out at night off leash then you're doing the right thing by watching her. Personally I would exercise her as much as possible in the cooler hours of the day rather than at night though (like before or after work) that way she wouldn't need to go outside at night except to potty, and that can be done on leash. If she is getting exercise in the cooler hours of the day, she doesn't need to be exercised outside at night too. If she wants to play at night, a game of fetch indoors, or a kong indoors works well

I take her for a walk in the morning before breakfast, not a long one as we are only just starting out on the leash, for about 15 mins at a leisurely walk,but when she realises we are on the way home,she likes to take off in a run, so she is back asleep by the time we leave for work.

we get home when the sky is starting to get quite dark, so would rather not walk then. i have a play with her for about 15-20 mins befre i get dinner for her, and then she spends most of the night following us around, sleeping or playing. she takes herself off to the toilet without any prompting after dinner, after a play session, and then after she has had her nap.

becuase she takes herself to the toilet, i dont know if i really want to block off the door (which i can do) as i would just be removing it everytime she tried to go out, as i would be worried she wanted to go to the toilet. around the side of our house we have a palm tree sort of thing which she loves to sit under and chew on the fronds, so i just follow and sit and watch, or if she is in the back yard, i can sit at the door and watch. she doesnt really play outside at night, its more exploring. she only plays wih her toys inside. and i dont interact with her outside after dinner other than a few pats if she comes to see me.

She also takes herself to the toilet in the midde of the night, and i dont even wake up when she sneaks out of our room now. I know she would whine to be let out if she was in the crate, and needed to go toilet, but we find the current system works well, as if she wakes in the middle of the nightand is bored, she leaves our room, and goes to the lounge to have a play or chew on her toys. quite often she then falls alseep while doing this, so if i get up in the middle of the night for a drink, i can usually find her with the toy still in her mouth. But from my experience wth her going outside to toilet then, she comes back in very quickly, and doesnt even go near the garden. she stays very close to the concete by the dog door. that is where i find a new poo every mornng, anyways.

For the above reasons, i think will def talk to a trainer about getting her to ignore them if she finds them, and keep up with my hunting.

Thanks for everyones feedback

Edited April 13, 2009 by LuvBella

[Jed]

lappiemum

My point is that we tend to emotionalise those species we have the most contact with - and in the case of canetoads, its ok to dettol them, or shoot them with air rifles (something I know that a non-DOLer advocates) or practice golf swings with, because they are 'bad'. But no-one who loves animals would do that to a horse, would they?

Not necessarily. I am not particularly in favour of killing anything.

I will kill toads, snakes, cockroaches, ticks, fleas, mosquitoes etc without mercy, in my environment, because they all, in one way or another, are detrimental to my and/or the dogs' health and welfare.

As far as putting toads in the freezer, it doesn't seem like a nice way to go to me - and how do you measure how much an animal suffers, or doesn't suffer, when it dies? Added to which, it is a lot of work to collect and bag a lot of toads, and I didn't buy by freeezer to fill with a pest species.

Squirting them with pine o clean, or Dettol produces very fast results, imho, and causes me the least stress and work - abiout 1/4 of catching and bagging them and putting them into the freezer.

And believe me, I certainly can tell the difference between frogs and toads, but I appreciate that others may not. But dead by freezing is just as dead as dead by Pine O Clean, isn't it, whether it is a frog or toad?

Unfortunately, Crixovar, my lot like to put their feet on them to make them jump - so they can do it again!!

[lappiemum]

Euthanising toads by freezing them is a more appropriate way of disposing of them as the toads fall asleep as their blood temp is lowered and then die. Spraying has the effect of acid on their skin; it may kill them faster but there is a lot more suffereing. At uni level, if you are working with toads and need to kill them, ethics approval requires that toads are frozen.

And yes, you are correct that many people will think that a brown frog, or native toad, is a canetoad. By picking them up and examining them, you are less likely to make a mistake - (esp if its dark).

[LuvBella]

Well, to be honest i think i would rather freeze them, i cant stand thinking i have made the poor things suffer from the acid burning, even though i think they are disgusting.

I spose i am just lucky that we have a freezer that we keep our rats in to feed our snakes, so its not going to be a risk of cross contamination with our food.

As most people wouldn't have the same luxury, would an ice cream container be better, or in a plastic bag

[Ray Wise]

Well one good thing is with winter fast approaching, the toad population will be in hiding for the next few months, which will be a good time to somehow try to "wire mesh" the bottom of our fences, all 300 meters of it. I don't like killing them either, but if I found our very expensive and much loved GSD very ill or worse from one of them, look out toads.

I was at a cafe at Natural Bridge on the NSW/Qld border a few months back, and they had a bottle of metho with a snake, with a toad still half in the snakes mouth. The snakes venom killed the toad, and in return the toad did its job on the snake, extremely quickly.

Hoo Roo

[Just Midol]

There are numerous frog species which look very similar to cane toads. There are pretty clear differences but it is important to carry a good torch and take your time identifying what you're killing.

http://www.canetoads.com.au/toadfrog.htm

[Ray Wise]

Great chart, thanks for the link.

Although I still haven't mistaken any of our frogs in the last few years for their warty cousins. Their hop, posture, look is unmistakable after chasing them for so long,

Hoo Roo

[Just Midol]

Great chart, thanks for the link.

Although I still haven't mistaken any of our frogs in the last few years for their warty cousins. Their hop, posture, look is unmistakable after chasing them for so long,

Hoo Roo

Yep, it is hard to mistake them once you've seem quite a few - they do have a very distinct hop and posture but someone who isn't familar with them won't be able to identify them based on the hop or posture like we can

[Princess Poodle]

Thank you for all the information, these are my pet hate. Disgusting!

Is there ever a way to keep them out totally? I would think not, I guess we just try to do our best to keep them away from our dogs. There is always something to watch out for .

[Ray Wise]

Thank you for all the information, these are my pet hate. Disgusting!

Is there ever a way to keep them out totally? I would think not, I guess we just try to do our best to keep them away from our dogs. There is always something to watch out for .

Well I am about to embark on a meshing program around our fence line, ( all 300 metres of it). Bunnings etc sell proper fine square mesh wire, (not flimsy chicken wire, although that will work too), that is going to go approx 20cm high from the ground. Cable ties or similar can attach the wire to the fence. Now that its winter, the toads will hibernate and not be seen which is good news, but I'm not going through a season like we just had, plus the many near misses with Leela picking them up.

The plan is to stop new toads from just hopping through our fence from the swamp at the back of our property, and once fully meshed, exterminate every single one I can find hidden in the yard. This should reduce their numbers in the yard by heaps, because at the moment there is no way Leela can run around our property at night on her own.

Hoo Roo

[Tarangire]

I just now had this same damn thing happen. Taking Leela, our 5 month old GSD for her nightly walk around the yard, and of course she tries to grab every thing that moves, (mostly toads). I have her on a leash, and I carry a torch with us, telling her to "leave it" and make sure she does. She decided to sit in the garden fixated on something, I couldn't see what, and then "POUNCE" like a cat and then spat out a small toad.

Shes ok, but it looks like more "toad patrols" tomorrow night for me and my daughter. She carries the bucket, and I carry the Dettol spray. We got 13 fair sized ones the other night, and living on acreage with a swamp down the back, its never ending. I know you shouldn't spray them because some say its its "cruel", but what they can do is far worse and they are a totally useless pest, so I sleep fine at night regarding that point. Leela stays inside at night, buts its a shame when we have to go and get her and drag her inside as night falls, because thats when the pests come out of course. On the other hand our green tree frog population is exploding, great to see.

Might have to try the netting suggestions etc on the fence bottoms to try to keep them out.

Hoo Roo

Hi RW. Your post is interesting. I mentioned my thesis before, and my research looks at why some introduced (aka ferral) species are fine to have around and why others are demonised, irrespective of the environmental impact that each species has. For example, while there is indisputable evidence to show that cane toads have had a negative impact on their local biological webs and are thus consider (rightly) as a pest species; other introduced species, who may have similar environmental impacts are not so despised. Why? A good example of this are brumbies (wild horses) - they are part of Australia's historic folklore and culture, and loved by many. Yet environmentally, their impact on the alpine heathlands in NSW and VIC has been devastating. Or the continued introductions of trout to Tasmanian rivers - by the parks and wildlife dept-(where they are the fish equivalent of lions in the savvanah,and have wiped out native fish and vertabrate populations. How about the ubiquitous gecko in north QLD? These guys are actually asian house geckos, and are quitely forcing out the native geckos to the point where people now think the asian version is the native. Or the lovely goldfinch bird? Beautiful song, lovely to look at, and yes, taking up valuable nesting opportunities, forcing out the locals and eating native insects.

My point is that we tend to emotionalise those species we have the most contact with - and in the case of canetoads, its ok to dettol them, or shoot them with air rifles (something I know that a non-DOLer advocates) or practice golf swings with, because they are 'bad'. But no-one who loves animals would do that to a horse, would they?

Dispose of cane toads humanely, and please make sure that they aren't toads (like the the painted borrowing frog, or the native toadlet). I know its easy to despise them, because they are 'ugly' and venoumous, but not animal deserves to die in agony.

And yes, put up netting and seal the areas they may get into. They are a fact of life now, and its better to just put in place proceedures to deal with them.

Hope this helps some people.

I grew up with cane toads in Central and North Queenland and always had a dog. Never did we pay a thought to our dogs being affected by cane toads. All of our dogs would mess with toads regularly, one gorgeous Australian Terrier we owned would spend half his days chewing on cane toads and we never witnessed any side effects and he lived well into his late teens.

I have lived in Brisbane for the past 5 years and have barely seen a cane toad untill the past week or so when I have seen several getting around my yard at night. I was a little bemused with my wifes paranoia about the chance of our 9 month old Stafford being affected by toads given my own personal experience. I mean I have certainly heard about dogs getting sick and even dying after mouthing or ingesting toads but I wasn't about to make a fuss when my puppy wants to be let outside for a toilet break after dark. I have also heard stories of hippies near Cairns using the venom from cane toads for its hallucinogenic properties and while this may well have been what attracted my dogs to regularly chew them in the past they were all well behaved, long lived, healthy dogs and never exactly acted like they were tripping out. I just thought I would check on here what peoples thoughts on and experience with cane toads has been.

Interestingly none of our dogs ever seemed to harm green frogs. Again the little terrier would sometimes give them a hard time but he seemed scared off by the loud swauk they would let out when he would pick them up or get too close and as far as I know he never actually seriously injured one. The little aussie terrier was a real little hunter though and often killed lizards, snakes, rodents and insects. He also often chased ducks and ibises and could enjoy himself for hours terrorising an elephant beatle. lol.

For some time we lived on a few acres with a dam during which time we would routinely hunt toads with a golf club. At certain times between my brother, father and I we would kill a couple of hundred toads per night without venturing far from the house. It would only take several minutes to do with there being a toad at least every two square metres. Most of the ones we would kill wouldn't have been much bigger than a mans fist.

When I was even younger my dad would sometimes sit on the balcony and shoot big cane toads with a high powered multi-pump pneumatic air riffle. Some of these toads where the size of a standard dinner plate or an almost fully inflated regulation size basketball. You wouldn't have been able to play golf with these ones, not humanely and not without bending your shafts anyway. lol. Cane toads are such tough creatures, many times I have seen smaller ones with all their guts hanging out their mouths and a mangled leg still trying to hop away after having been smashed 30m with a 5-iron (still probably a kinder death than being sprayed with detol). And there was no room in our 400L freezer for cane toads because it was always kept full of duck, rabbit, pork and venison from weekend hunting trips. haha.

I can't say I have ever considered eating a cane toad but I have no trouble killing them. They are hideous creatures and a pest in this country. Rats much the same although rats are far more intelligent than toads yet it still doesn't stop most people from serving them up a horrible death from baits containing strychnine or warfarin.