Free Shaping

[Heidii]

I am questing this 'free shaping' way of training. I was introduced to this method through my agility club. First time I used it was on contacts...thought it was great so started using it for everything....but have since found its confusing the crap outta my dog. Commands he used to know like sit and drop are being OVERRUN by his free shaping experience. Now, its like he DOESNT listen to what I say, he just trys every trick he knows until he gets the food. ( it think i read someone else having the same problems but could find the post).

What can I do?....I have since decided as of yesterday to stop free shaping.

[laffi]

I free shape everything I can (sit, down, jumping (jump, tire, long jump), contacts, weaves (through 2x2), stays, heeling, ....). I never had a problem.

However I only work on one thing during one session. So my criterias are clear for the dog.

Sue H said at her seminar that the free shaped behavior is the strongest one. I definitely agree

[Erny]

I will use free shaping to 'capture' something I wish to promote. I don't use it as a single method and similar to the luring method, I wean off rewarding the offered behaviour fairly quickly, transferring it to a behaviour which is only rewarded when I ask for it. I don't seem to have a problem with the method in the fashion that I use it.

ETA: Oh .... except for the "closing drawers" trick. My boy loooooves to close drawers (a 'free shaped' trick). Inconvenient when you DON'T want a drawer closed .

Edited March 30, 2009 by Erny

[Nekhbet]

think about

- how consistant are you with your shaping

- how clear are you with your shaping

- have you inadvertantly created a pattern in your dog he thinks he has to follow

he just trys every trick he knows until he gets the food

if he is not asked, ignore him. If he does not comply with a known command then is there a consequence? Also if he is pulling random moves then withold food completely - he is doing it because he knows it will come eventually but he is not sure what for so his entire repetoire comes out at once. It sounds like he is a little confused about the whole process they are cute though

[Kavik]

When I first started shaping with Zoe I got the whole repertoire of tricks too

I just ignore anything given that is not what I want. Also only work on one thing during a session. I do find it easier when working with props as this does help to cue the dog as to what type of behaviour you want.

I find the beginning bit of the free shaping process very frustrating, but worth it once it clicks in the dog's head what you want, as they are very enthusiastic about it and it does stay in their heads well.

[leopuppy04]

Agree with the others about ignoring what you don't want.

Try a No reward marker such as no, nup or something... to tell him to try again.

I think it sounds like he loves free shaping - so I would definitely try and channel it :rolleyes:

As per usual, I'm with Laffi :rolleyes: I use free shaping a lot and I do find that these types of behaviours are very strong.

Have you put a cue on the behaviours you are asking for?

[JulesP]

I don't do free shaping as I am too impatient and a bit of a control freak

If you aren't 'in to' a training method though it will be hard for you to be successful at it. If free shaping doesn't speak to you then look for other methods.

[Cosmolo]

I have just started doing some free shaping with Cosmo and i really like it. I find it really interesting that some behaviours that she has done many times on cue, she found difficult to free shape to start with- eg sitting on the dining chair. I do think you need to be clear, have a no reward mark and use some other training tecnhiques at other times as well but thats just my opinion. I wouldn't free shape everything i teach a dog because there are other techniques i really like too.

[Vickie]

I like free shaping too & agree that for us, the behaviours that are shaped seem more solid & tend to be performed more enthusiastically.

One of my dogs doesn't free shape well. He just doesn't get it, not matter how long I wait or how hard I try.

One is renowned for giving the whole repetoire initially but quickly settles down & concentrates on the task at hand. I just don't reward for what I don't want.

Shine is probably the best at it as it relates to objects. In anticipation, she tends to zero in on something, whatever is closest & checks in with me to see she has it right. If we are standing in the yard & there is a box (that she jumps in), weaves & a jump, she will first see if she can work out what I want by the position I put her in. If that is unclear, she will lock into one of the objects with her eyes. If I give no response, she will try another object until she gets a yes from me & then we start. It seems to work for us & once she knows what I am after, off she goes at it.

Obviously I try when starting something new to make it as unconfusing as possible.

Definitely patience is required, but I think it's worth it. I mean there are worse things in training than a dog who is desperately trying to earn a reward .

Edited March 31, 2009 by Vickie

[TerraNik]

I love free shaping too... My dogs know that if they didn't get a click, it wasn't what I wanted. Sometimes they have offered the shaped behaviours but that gets ignored too and they rarely do it again. But I started them on free shaping since they were 8 weeks old, so they know this method really well... It might be harder to introduce it to an older dog that isn't used to it?