Herding Ht

[Janba]

Confidence isn't really about the dogs working ability but on about experience. Its like learning to drive a car - the potential is there but the practice gives you the confidence to handle the car in different situations.

Good explanation Janba.

Given what you say Jules, that Poppy is a control freak - she likes to hold them on fences and in obstacles as she knows she can control them and hold them there, she needs to learn that she can also do this elsewhere and develop confidence in her own ability to keep them under control in open spaces. At least that is my interpretation of what Janba was explaining

It is what I am trying to say.

If I can upload it I have a video of Cole working some Suffolk sheep when he was younger and one stood him up and kept charging him. He ran from the sheep but came back when asked and eventually moved them. He lacked confidence to start with but trusted me enough to keep trying nd won. That was a huge boost to his confidence to control his sheep.

Hope this link works

Edited May 16, 2010 by Janba

[ness]

Hmmmm is it a case of herding addiction when you decide that it might be more fun to go herding then go to an obedience mock trial which you know you really badly need to go to .

[JulesP]

Dunno. Herding is a different kind of fun to obedience, lol. Maybe you just feel like the herding type of fun at the moment???

I am off to a clinic on the weekend.

[ness]

Well I could have done both but I am not dedicated enough to think that herding in the rain is fun . Its probably more fun then obedience in the rain mind you.

[JulesP]

Herding in the sunshine just feels well - wrong! Needs to be rainy and misty But maybe that is because I am pom??

[ness]

I don't mind being out in the rain, dog doesn't mind the rain - not sure my city slicker car would appreciate tackling the driveaway into the place we go herding when its wet . Oh and I don't really do driving in the hills when its wet either .

[Janba]

We have a double duck trial tomorrow. 2 runs in inter B, an started A and a move up to inter A if we pass (and the handler doesn't have dummy spit.) We only get to herd ducks at trials so I've given him the "no pluck a duck" lecture.

[piper]

We have a double duck trial tomorrow. 2 runs in inter B, an started A and a move up to inter A if we pass (and the handler doesn't have dummy spit.) We only get to herd ducks at trials so I've given him the "no pluck a duck" lecture.

good luck Janba. I hope you are less of a hindrance to Cole than I am to Jazz when it comes to duck handling!

We get a rare chance to train on Sunday which i am looking forward to. Hope to continue developing her driving.

[Janba]

We have a double duck trial tomorrow. 2 runs in inter B, an started A and a move up to inter A if we pass (and the handler doesn't have dummy spit.) We only get to herd ducks at trials so I've given him the "no pluck a duck" lecture.

good luck Janba. I hope you are less of a hindrance to Cole than I am to Jazz when it comes to duck handling!

We get a rare chance to train on Sunday which i am looking forward to. Hope to continue developing her driving.

I'm probably a bigger hindrance to Cole than you are to your 2 when it comes to ducks. I seem to always put him in he wrong spot and get as frustrated as he does with them. Ducks aint easy. And where we are having the trial is an absolutely beautiful setting with a creek at the bottom of the B course so I can just see ducks making escape attempts to the creek.

ETA I hear very good reports on how Jazz is going (thumbs up but can't do emoticons as internet is working on 3G). Can't keep anything secret in the herding world.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Janba

[JulesP]

Good luck Janba.

[piper]

I'm probably a bigger hindrance to Cole than you are to your 2 when it comes to ducks. I seem to always put him in he wrong spot and get as frustrated as he does with them. Ducks aint easy. And where we are having the trial is an absolutely beautiful setting with a creek at the bottom of the B course so I can just see ducks making escape attempts to the creek.

ETA I hear very good reports on how Jazz is going (thumbs up but can't do emoticons as internet is working on 3G). Can't keep anything secret in the herding world.

Oh no that sounds just like me with my 2. Tull wanted to pick me up and move me around last time she said, lol. I discovered what works when working Piper on ducks doesn't with Jazz. Add to that that Jazz works so wide off of them that at times fences were in her way. Then she got frustrated and went for a pluck so went and hid in the Y chute and took time to agree to working again, lol.

I am very pleased with Jazz, I just wish I could do her justice. She feels wasted on me as she has so much natural ability. We have hit a sticking point now as she can't drive so intermediate is out of the question rand we get so few opportunities to go and train that getting her driving is going to be difficult.

Look forwards to reading a brag from you later today :D

[Janba]

A wee small brag for the day.

They ran the two B courses then the 2 A courses. In the first B course we got an ugly pass with 5 points deducted for disobedince (plucking a duck) and he went the wrong way on the cast (he knew there were no sheep the way I sent him so went the other way looking foir them) but he still one of only 2 passes and his first inter B pass. 2nd B course he did a much better run and has only lost 8 points to the shedding ring (+ 10 for plucking ducks as a disobedience) but try as we might we couldn't get the ducks to stop in the swhedding ring. I couldn't get him far enough off them, and still say he was working them, for him not to be still influecing them. Problems of a dark dog.

Then we got a pass in the first A course, so his HSAd title. I ran him started in the secomnd trial as well as I wanted to try to stop the plucking. It worked with a lot less plucking. He only lost 7 1/2 points on the course but still 5 for disobedience - which may have also been from me doing loud UH every time he looked like plucking.

Now we don't get to see ducks again till the state titles in Oct.

Ann got HIT in he first trial with 99 1/2 with Twist and Colin got HIT in the second trial with 100. Both were beautiful runs to watch.

[piper]

A wee small brag for the day.

They ran the two B courses then the 2 A courses. In the first B course we got an ugly pass with 5 points deducted for disobedince (plucking a duck) and he went the wrong way on the cast (he knew there were no sheep the way I sent him so went the other way looking foir them) but he still one of only 2 passes and his first inter B pass. 2nd B course he did a much better run and has only lost 8 points to the shedding ring (+ 10 for plucking ducks as a disobedience) but try as we might we couldn't get the ducks to stop in the swhedding ring. I couldn't get him far enough off them, and still say he was working them, for him not to be still influecing them. Problems of a dark dog.

Then we got a pass in the first A course, so his HSAd title. I ran him started in the secomnd trial as well as I wanted to try to stop the plucking. It worked with a lot less plucking. He only lost 7 1/2 points on the course but still 5 for disobedience - which may have also been from me doing loud UH every time he looked like plucking.

Now we don't get to see ducks again till the state titles in Oct.

Ann got HIT in he first trial with 99 1/2 with Twist and Colin got HIT in the second trial with 100. Both were beautiful runs to watch.

Well done Janba!! I am chuckling away at his plucking deductions - sounds like he is worse for it than Jazz is.

I find the ducks interesting, I was saying to Ann the other week it is like they are in a bubble and the size of the bubble is as far off of them as the dog works. As in Piper works close - within a couple of metres and they will come to that distance from me. Jazz works them from well off and they will come nowhere near me at all. So things I did with Piper don't seem to work with Jazz as it puts me in their way and they deflect off of me where with Piper they would move past me.

Did anyone get any video? I would love to see some of good duck runs - we are all just fumbling through over here.

[Janba]

No video but some pictures where taken. Cole would work them close but they run from him. At least he didn't loose them through the fence which is what happened in most runs in B course. Twist settles them so can get close plus she is so instant on obeying commands its easy to move her 1 foot to the side. Same with Colin's dogs.

Cole wouldn't really hurt them he just finds them frustrating, especially as his handler never knows were to put him. What he does is dive in and try to do a quick nip, like you would to a recalcient sheep but not as hard, then goes back off them. He has also been known to shove them where he wants them.

[JulesP]

Congrats Janba I haven't had a go on ducks yet, not sure what Poppy will think, don't think she will do any chomping but she also might not herd them. She doesn't take much notice of the ducks when we walk near them at training.

Had a good clinic. Poppy is showing some nice work but we are a little inconsistent still. Amber had a go in the round yard and is showing really good instinct. She is a gutsy little thing and wasn't taking any crap from the sheepies. Out of all 3 of my dogs she stood up to the same bunch of sheep the most. Very cute. I even had a go with Brock, he showed a bit more interest today. He is very unsure but looks like he could be good if I can convince him that he can chase the sheep.

[piper]

Well we enjoyed our training today, even if Jazz did get caked in mud and I got soaked to the skin.

Jazz had some lovely moments and some down right strange moments. In 1 smallish area she decided she could not possibly go and get the sheep with me at the gate - would got 10m, and turn back to me or drop yet in all the other areas she would do it no hassle. The person whose place it was said she has a couple of dogs do that when the sheep are in that area too. Very odd. Anyway I just went closer and got her going.

She did some nice casting work in the big open paddock and lovely changes of directions. Taking her side commands no hassle at all, then we started driving...

We went to a smaller area for that so that we didn't have sheep getting too far away and her feeling the need to head them and control them back to me. She did some fantastic walk ups to push the sheep off of my legs and onto the fence and would keep walking up even between the sheep and I which I was pleased about - Piper always tried to arc back to the head once she was past me. Going on the suggestion I was given at the clinic a month ago I started by crossing her - so putting her in a down and walking behind her to initiate the cross and then sending her - that was all ok and she coped with that in both directions and from various distances. If I got level with her she would iunstead go out and around me which I didn't worry about too much as we were in a smaller area and she likes her space. But as soon as I took even 1 step to the other side so that she had to cross inside of me she would have real hassles and just would not go the side I asked. As it was a training session I tried sending her to the head as well as to the tail and either way if she had to cross me even by half a metre she would either turn and face me or try and take the opposite side. If I stepped back so that I was behind her then she would push herself out behind me in the correct direction.

I probably moved too fast and need to spend more time crossing her, just she was doing that so well that I moved on a bit. I have to remind myself that she is so lightly trained and I am for the first time asking her to do something that is totally foreign to her so I need to give her time. I will say once we got them onto the fence each time she did a good job sitting in the right spot to keep them walking along the fence, much much better than Piper.

A half brother of hers by the same sire was there for his first go on stock today and looks like he will be a similar worker.

[JulesP]

Sounds like you had a good time Piper Poppy is a slightly unusual Border in that she prefers to drive rather than fetch. She pretty much drove the sheep all around a started course at one stage, not on my command mind you! I finally got her to bring them back to me. Which in itself was pretty good as I was down by the pen and she took them right up and through the Z shute!

We did start on our lefts & rights (sides?) but Mummy had a little bit of trouble with working out which way was which! It was making me dizzy!

What a shame we are all in different states!!!

[piper]

We did start on our lefts & rights (sides?) but Mummy had a little bit of trouble with working out which way was which! It was making me dizzy!

What a shame we are all in different states!!!

Argh, I had just typed a reply and lost it!

We did have a good time - anytime where we get the chance to do some herding is a good time

With the side commands I got told mot to think of it is left and right but instead think circles. For me that was easier as anti-clockwise is anticlockwise whereever you are on the circle, whereas when the dog is facing a different direction it took me longer to work out as I would need to think where I want the dog to go and what direction this is relative to the dog rather than with circles it is either clockwise or anticlockwise around the sotck no matter where on the clockface the dog and I are situated.

I think though that was part of Jazz's problem today that she sees the commands relative to me - hence backing up and going around me at times and when I was in a different spot it changed the picture a bit too much for her. I am thinking I am going to work with a clicker at home and a toy and help build her understanding that way.

ETA: Ness should be in here soon with news on how she and Kenzie went.

Edited May 30, 2010 by piper

[JulesP]

I tried the clock thing too! So Ness did herding instead of obedience! lol

[piper]

I tried the clock thing too! So Ness did herding instead of obedience! lol

Yep, even though it was drizzly and muddy.

I actualy feel for the beginners - the round yard was just a sludge pit, at least I only had to walk through it a couple of times to shift stock, not work in it for any period of time. Jazz's half brother kept laying down in it, yuk!