Increasing Drive

[leopuppy04]

I’ve noticed, as I have become more involved in training in general that many people have difficulty with their dogs drive levels and getting it to a point where they feel happy. Particularly in the obedience and agility circuits. Most of us see these really speedy border collies, kelpies and such who will do absolutely anything for a toy or just to see the inside of an agility circuit. Let me tell you – neither of my dogs are like that, both are very soft when it comes to training and I’ve had to put a lot of continual sweat and time into increasing their drive…. Even to a point where some people still look at me and go ‘meh – that’s nothing’ .

I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on how and what people have used to increase their dogs drive for their chosen sport. It doesn’t have to be all of these fan-dangled toys that you can now buy (read: Clean Run!) but it can just be the simple way that you interact with your dog. Often when someone tells me ‘my dogs don’t play with toys’ or ‘they don’t like food’ it is because they (IMO) haven’t tried hard enough to find what they do like, or have some loophole in their training. I don’t think anyone is to blame, as I am SURE that we have all been there, and all made the same mistakes. I am sure I’ve made more than enough mistakes to fill a whole shipment container or two. While your dog may not become that super fast Border Collie, we can make them LOVE working for us and also for that reward at the end. Basically we can make them the best that they can be and have fun while doing so. If you think your breed isn’t suited, all you have to do is search youtube or the internet and see just how many different breeds have excelled in their sports. I’ll wager it’s the dedication of their handler and their ability to understand training that has given them these results. Now I am by NO means an expert…. Frankly, I think my dogs suck eggs at obedience and agility compared to most others…. But I thought I might just share some things that I have done (and encourage others to do the same also) about what I’ve done to increase their drive.

With food – I have first of all tried to make it more enticing by using different types of food. I know most of you on here are already aware of that and trying that. Foods such as sausage, hot dog, cheese, chicken chunkers, devon, cooked chicken, raw meat etc are all big favourites.

Second I vary the rewards – if I know that they love a few of these food types, don’t always give them chicken as eventually they will get sick of this too. I usually go on a shopping spree (haha I can’t believe I just called shopping for my dogs’ treats a shopping spree ) and buy up all of their favourites. Spend an afternoon infront of the tele cutting them all up and putting them into snap lock bags. Freeze them and they are ready to go . The dogs never know what type of treat they are getting when we are out training .

If your dog is particularly finicky – try hand feeding their food – 5-10 bits of kibble by hand before they get the food bowl. Gradually work this up to asking for simple behaviours such as a basic nose touch, before dinner. If they don’t eat it in 10mins, take it away and don’t offer anything else. Clicker training here can really help also. I find because the clicker becomes a conditioned response, the value of the food drastically increases.

Change the way you deliver the food – put the food in your pockets, on the bench, in a container, in your mouth (sorry, can’t do this one myself!) and spit it out at all angles. Sometimes feed the dog in position, but also throw the food also (just make sure your dog can see it).

Play the 2 food game too. It’s simple – throw food one way, then throw food the other way – playing ‘chase the bikkie’ – again food has to be easy to see, but it gives a different value to the food. This is great training for one jump stuff, recalls and dumbell training.

Jackpot containers are a biggie for me too – I have taught my dogs to chase the jackpot container and I’ll rip it open and give them a treat. The great benefit of this is that after doing some agility, I can throw the container at the end of the sequence and the dogs will race after it. I will get REALLY excited talking to them the whole time and then give them every bit in the container (it could be 2 pieces of food for all they care).

Teach a self-rewarding behaviour. I’ve taught my dogs both to target and spin, jump up on me – all of which are really good ways to revv them up before a run. This can also turn into a reward in the middle of the ring because it has become self-rewarding in itself.

Ok – now for toys.

Keep your sessions really short, and if your dog is a softie – let them win a lot. I know it hurts, but don’t worry if they bite/ scratch you in the excitement…. This is a GOOD thing because it means they want the toy

Hide the toy behind your back, bring it out, wiggle it and whip it away again just before the dog gets it. Don’t get them too frustrated though as they’ll just give up – let them win it and before they even tug on it let them win. The BIGGEST thing for me is not to snatch it back from their mouth. Bring out another toy of the same value and start the game again. Sometimes dogs don’t want to play with us because we always snatch the toy back, just when the game is getting good…. So what’s the point?! Have that 2nd toy ready and keep playing with them!!!

End (I know we all say it, but it can’t be said enough) BEFORE the dog gets bored!!!!!! If your dog isn’t too much of a foodie – C&T the dog for any tugs on the toy or even picking up the toy (if you are doing a retrieve). Another game I play is I let go – I tell them ‘oh you won… lucky thing’ and give them a revving up massage up and down… then I’ll start getting them really excited talking gibberish to them ‘ooh wheres the toy… ready steaddyyy’ and I’ll pick up the toy and start wiggling it again. Usually after doing this a few times, the dog will playbow and pick up the toy ready for a new game

If your dog happens to pick up a toy around the house – I always make a big fuss and begin a short game – ‘oh aren’t you clever! What have you got etc,etc’…

Remember that every time you go to a new environment, the dog may be too distracted to play. Try and engage in a game initially, then put the toy away and don’t bring it out again – use another form of a reward instead. We never want to give the dog the opportunity to walk away from the toy.

One thing that I have found really helpful is to bring a whole bag full of toys. For example, this morning I had a ball and a tug in my pocket. The dog always looks surprised at what you whip out – because they never know what to expect. Low and behold when I gave them a ‘jackpot’ and told them to go back to their bag there was ANOTHER toy in there …. What fun! Keeping the anticipation of what you have in your ‘goodie bag’ really helps keep motivation and drive up.

The other most important thing is your placement of reward. Don’t forget to reward your dog appropriately when they get something right! You can always finish the rest of the exercise or course later, but how is the dog to know that the behaviour it just did was correct if we don’t stop mid – course and reward. For a dog that is lacking a bit in drive and confidence, this will make a huge difference.

Like I said – I don’t consider myself anything else than someone who has used a variety of methods to increase their dogs drive and naturally these are just a few. They aren’t your super fast dogs and sometimes leave much to be desired… but I’m proud of them and we have fun with what we do. Am looking forward to other people’s suggestions

[Nekhbet]

drive training is not the be all and end all for every dog.

remember too there is other drives beside prey and food that can be utilised. Not every dog can be motivated through prey/food rewards sometimes handler praise can be more effective. I wanted a drivey dog so I got a Malinois - why make life difficult for myself lets face it I think some people too have to look at is their dog the right dog for the activity they chose - choose the right dog for the right activity, if its not working after a myriad of techniques then swap the sport.

ETA your post though is really excellent and easy to follow for the drive handlers

Edited March 26, 2009 by Nekhbet

[laffi]

What a great topic

Here is how I worked with my golden retriever to increase her drive:

1) only a few toys are available for her during the day; none of them are high value toys I use in training (squeaky balls, sheepy tug toys, etc)

2) I only play/train when she is excited (so when I get from work for example or after a swim); I never even attempt anything if she is sleepy/tired. I always stop before she switches off. So our initial sessions where only 5-10 secs long.

3) during initial stages all the food I gave her was used in training (so she didn't get anything for free or from her bowl)

4) hungry dog will get excited about food, so I wouldn't feed her the day before our training session in the club

5) I experimented with toys to find the ones she really likes. Every dog is different and I think it's worth investigating what really turns your dog on.

6) Since she is more food motivated I started using food pouches as a toy to throw and make her go forward (very useful in agility). She loves them more than getting food from my hand and it really increased her speed and drive in more distracting environments where she wouldn't tug as well for example.

[ness]

Competition if you have more than one dog. My older one hasn't been doing much in the way of training for the past few weeks and last night was her first opportunity in ages - she has been coming out but mainly staying in the car while I train my younger girl and she was really fired up last night.

[laffi]

Competition if you have more than one dog. My older one hasn't been doing much in the way of training for the past few weeks and last night was her first opportunity in ages - she has been coming out but mainly staying in the car while I train my younger girl and she was really fired up last night.

great one ness!

Laffi (my golden) goes nuts when she sees me playing with my other dog

[Vickie]

good suggestions .

Edited March 26, 2009 by Vickie

[leopuppy04]

yup - definitely agree with competition (plus it's a good excuse to have more than one dog

[The Spotted Devil]

I have the complete antithesis of a 'drivey' dog

I've done pretty much what LP has mentioned but the biggest lesson I have learned is patience Keep it light, fresh, fun with no pressure and develop a training method where the dog gets excited when he makes a mistake in anticipation of getting it right next time Another thing I've noticed is that the level and type of motivation has changed with age. When Zig was very young it was all about cuddles. Then nothing motivated him for a very long teenage phase except his desire to do as he wished, so I utilised that as well - a free run and leg lifting session as a reward for working well! Once I started hand feeding his food motivation improved and, with some very gentle encouragement he is beginning to accept praise, petting and a game with me as a reward. However, a gentle stroke of the head is sufficient - he detests being mauled by people The other thing I do is give him some quiet time in his crate - bring him out for some fun games/training, reward then quietly put him in his crate again - it has really helped his focus

[Kavik]

Make yourself fun

For some reason I find I act differently around my different dogs and I think this is what has caused the problems I have had with Diesel - I was getting too serious and not being fun enough. I am now being more fun when I play with the toy and he is becoming more enthusiastic He will still never be as quick as the others in general, but I am happy to have him happy when working.

I am also using oppositional reflex and finding it lots of fun - restraining and then seeing who can make it to the toy/treat bag the fastest!

[leopuppy04]

Kavik that is a fun game - restraining them then letting them go

I also think it's good to have a variety of rewards - you, toys, food etc.

That way your dog never knows what's coming and you can use yourself as a reinforcer in the ring

[dogdude]

With the style of prey drive training I am doing, drive is developed using a base game, where the dog is only rewarded for using maximum effort (chasing and holding a tuggie).

Instead of swapping the item to get a release, the dog learns that the game is restarted almost immediately after he releases it, thus it's in the dogs best interest to release the item as soon as you command, to start the chase again.

To teach this, you just give an "out" command, and make the tuggie lifeless, while holding it against your legs for support, and wait for the dog to lose interest. When dog releases, instantly restart the chase.

To enhance drive to an even higher level, I put my dog on a tie out using a long lead and harness tied to an old bike tube, and give her the "ok" command, but keep the tuggie just out of her reach,..... only letting her get it on around her 3rd or 4th maximum effort. This type of work greatly improves her drive and grip on the tuggie.

[Heidii]

drive training is not the be all and end all for every dog.

I wanted a drivey dog so I got a Malinois - why make life difficult for myself lets face it I think some people too have to look at is their dog the right dog for the activity they chose - choose the right dog for the right activity, if its not working after a myriad of techniques then swap the sport.

LOL, i say this ALOT, but everyone shuts me down by saying. IT DOESNT MATTER ABOUT THE BREED OF DOG.....

sometimes I dont think this is true.....

I have had people say about my dog...thats is better to have a dog harder to train then getting one thats eays...and I say "HA...there you go, your already admiting that some breeds are simply EASIER than others"...

Edited March 27, 2009 by Heidii

[Heidii]

GREAT topic Amanda!!

I have done everything mentioned accept for:

"The BIGGEST thing for me is not to snatch it back from their mouth. Bring out another toy of the same value and start the game again. Sometimes dogs don’t want to play with us because we always snatch the toy back, just when the game is getting good…. So what’s the point?! Have that 2nd toy ready and keep playing with them!!!"

I will give it a try!!!!

[Kavik]

Of course some dogs are better for some things than others, that's the point of having different breeds right?

[ness]

I don't believe its entirely a breed issue. Individual dogs within a particular breed can be more or less driven the dogs of the same or even a different breed. It really gets to me when people say oh you have a BC they find everything easy and are born trained. Well excuse me for having put in the hours to make sure my foundations are more than adequate for what I am doing. Any way rant over just because you have a BC or a Malinois or a working breed doesn't necessarily mean they are born drive, focused, attentive, out-going and that the owner might not have had to put just as much work as somebody from a perceived less naturally driven breed.

Gets to me when not only do other class members say it but its then backed up by comments from the instructors.

[Kavik]

I am finding that foundation work is very important Certainly putting in the hard work at the beginning pays off later on.

However, you certainly have a better chance of doing well if your breed is more suitable for the activity you would like to do, and if you choose a breeder and individual within the litter which have the attributes that you require.

[ness]

Yes doing your homework certainly helps but I am over the negatively that gets thrown at you for having done your homework. Personal rant as I am struggling with people watching my youngster and dismissing everything positive she is doing because she is a border collie and supposedly they are all born like she is when I have put the hard work in to ensure that she responds like she does.

[Steve K9Pro]

LP: Often when someone tells me ‘my dogs don’t play with toys’ or ‘they don’t like food’ it is because they (IMO) haven’t tried hard enough to find what they do like, or have some loophole in their training.

K9: Some dogs just have high threshold to prey drive & no amount of training or playing will develop their prey drive into a usable training tool. I agree many people give up way too early but we need to know that some dogs just wont be useful for training in prey drive, but then we can look at their other drives & see what they have that we can use.

LP" If you think your breed isn’t suited, all you have to do is search youtube or the internet and see just how many different breeds have excelled in their sports. I’ll wager it’s the dedication of their handler and their ability to understand training that has given them these results.

K9: I strongly agree it isn't breed specific, no training or motivation really is, but some dogs will not work for a toy, ever & if prey isnt theor primary drive then trying to work with a toy is counter productive also.

LP: With food – I have first of all tried to make it more enticing by using different types of food. I know most of you on here are already aware of that and trying that. Foods such as sausage, hot dog, cheese, chicken chunkers, devon, cooked chicken, raw meat etc are all big favourites.

K9: In my eperience we use moist meat, it creates a scent & doesnt jam in the throat of a driven dog, but, if food is used right in a training program the TASTE of the food isnt that important. When many dogs go into full food drive, they often dont eve eat the food after they have captured it.

Eating & the taste commonly becomes secondary to tertiary to winning it.

LP: Play the 2 food game too. It’s simple – throw food one way, then throw food the other way – playing ‘chase the bikkie’ – again food has to be easy to see, but it gives a different value to the food. This is great training for one jump stuff, recalls and dumbell training.

I would be very careful with this one, games like two ball & two foods often produced a mouthy dog when it comes t dumbell retrieval.

LP: Jackpot containers are a biggie for me too – I have taught my dogs to chase the jackpot container and I’ll rip it open and give them a treat. The great benefit of this is that after doing some agility, I can throw the container at the end of the sequence and the dogs will race after it. I will get REALLY excited talking to them the whole time and then give them every bit in the container (it could be 2 pieces of food for all they care).

K9: just playing devils advocate here, I would take a guess that your body langauge & excitement level oround the jackpot container may have something to do with the excitement exhinited by your dog.

LP: The BIGGEST thing for me is not to snatch it back from their mouth. Bring out another toy of the same value and start the game again. Sometimes dogs don’t want to play with us because we always snatch the toy back, just when the game is getting good…. So what’s the point?! Have that 2nd toy ready and keep playing with them!!!

K9: It is also goal dependant, if were trying to build up a solid hold for say a sleeve snathcing it out will increase the grip. Again I never teach people to use two toys, the mouthy / nervy dog that it can produce can take a long time to fix.

I prefer to gain the toy back by making it (the prey) go dead. Then the millisecond that the dog opens its mouth I give release command & move the toy again.

teach thst if you give me back the toy I will make it live again. For dogs that already have a very high value for the item or have developed a conflistc of hwo toy it is, I have a leash technique that helps them out the toy without corrections.

LP: If your dog happens to pick up a toy around the house – I always make a big fuss and begin a short game – ‘oh aren’t you clever! What have you got etc,etc’…

K9: I have a rule that says "never let the dog start the game". Once you do you can find that you have trouble starting it when you want as the dog has the start switch.

Some of these suggestions though are great!

[Kavik]

Fair enough - it must be tough having the most popular obedience and agility breed. I personally like to see how the individual dog is working and responding, and certainly have great respect for those I see with great dogs in their sport, regardless of breed (even if it IS a Border Collie )

[Steve K9Pro]

L: only a few toys are available for her during the day; none of them are high value toys I use in training (squeaky balls, sheepy tug toys, etc)

K9: I actually remove all toys & lower all outside stimulation so that all of the dogs energy can be put back into training in drive.

L: I only play/train when she is excited (so when I get from work for example or after a swim); I never even attempt anything if she is sleepy/tired. I always stop before she switches off. So our initial sessions where only 5-10 secs long.

K9: Absolutely, people see their dog go into drive & keep going so long they tire it out of drive...

3) during initial stages all the food I gave her was used in training (so she didn't get anything for free or from her bowl)

K9: Yep & the people we train to compete make sure they turn up to trials with a hungry dog, one that has not eaten for at least 24 hours. (within reason also)

5) I experimented with toys to find the ones she really likes. Every dog is different and I think it's worth investigating what really turns your dog on.

K9: I more look for a toy that will A) last B) wont pull dogs teeth out like some rope tugs do C) fits in the dogs mouth witout making the dog stretch (jaw pain reduces drive)

N: Competition if you have more than one dog. My older one hasn't been doing much in the way of training for the past few weeks and last night was her first opportunity in ages - she has been coming out but mainly staying in the car while I train my younger girl and she was really fired up last night.

K9: This type of activity is good, but some people need to watch out it isnt developing rank drive in their dogs & the dogs end up fighting at later stages due to pack unrest.