Vaccinations

[Kirra_Bomber_Zeus]

I really wish I had a copy of the newsletter with me - my vet gave it to me, however it is at home and I am at work! IF I can get my scanner to work tonight I will scan it and PM it to you if you like. Having something in writing from the AVA to show your vet might make you feel a little bit more confident if you decide thats what you want to do.

That would be really great, thanks!! I found out Titre testing costs $103.40 from VetWest, so I'm guessing that is cheaper than interstate?!

No problem, I will try and boot my scanner into gear tonight!

Im not sure what it costs interstate - I was told it is cheaper here though (we dont need to pay for shipping it over here)

[RubyStar]

How often would you need to Titre test to see if a vaccination is required?

[huski]

RubyStar - most DOLers I know who get titre testing done price it at around $60.

I try not to vaccinate my dogs yearly, I wouldn't if they didn't board fairly regularly. Generally I just vaccinate them when I know we are going away as it is required by law for any dogs who use a boarding kennel (about once a year). Mish went about 18 months without vaccination before I had to board him at the end of last year.

Cherry is never boarded so I gave her a C3 last year and that will be it for her now, as she's ten years old.

There are over 30 different strains of kennel cough, Micha and Daisy were both vacc'd with a C5 last year and caught KC when they went to the kennels anyway.

ETA: You might find this helpful to read:

http://www.dogsadversereactions.com/Changi...eProtocols.html

Edited March 27, 2009 by huski

[RubyStar]

I didn't realise C5 was meant to help protect from KC (or did I not interpret you correctly, huski?) because Ruby has had a C5 and then proceeded to catch KC a few months later.

My little maltese is 15 years old and hasn't been vaccinated in I can't remember how long And she's a healthy little bugger! (except for infected ears and itchy skin!) So I guess vaccinating yearly seems to be overkill... I trust the opinions and advice of fellow dog owners so probably won't vaccinate my Labs again for another few years. Although, Millie's vaccination has already been paid for in her wellness plan, just needs to have it administered later in the year! After that, that will do her for a while

[willis08]

Also, just to add - I think vets should ensure they do keep up with the latest information - especially from their own association, regardless of whether they receive the newsletter. The AVA states in their policies:

2.1 - Responsible use of veterinary immunobiologicals in cats and dogs

Policy

The Australian Veterinary Association (AVA) believes that veterinarians must maintain a highly professional approach to all aspects of the use of immunobiologicals (vaccines). This includes ensuring that vaccines are not used unnecessarily, ensuring that the latest techniques are adopted (as appropriate) and appreciating that the profession will be held responsible for the correct use of immunobiologicals. Veterinarians should aim to maintain the profession as the source of informed knowledge on the use of these agents.[/i]

I really wish I had a copy of the newsletter with me - my vet gave it to me, however it is at home and I am at work! IF I can get my scanner to work tonight I will scan it and PM it to you if you like. Having something in writing from the AVA to show your vet might make you feel a little bit more confident if you decide thats what you want to do.

That would be great kirra bomber zues, I can give a copy to alot of vets here in backwaterlaide, and tell them that titre testing is becoming the latest technique. not jamming as many vaccs as they've got into your dog, that to me, is all about the money. My new pup had a C3 and C2 before he left the breeder, my vet was really annoyed when he seen the vacc certificate, he didn't understand why you would vaccs a puppy for corona virus & lepto in this area. We both agreed the only 2nd vacc needed was a C3. He doesn't vaccs his own dogs yearly, and has agreed to titre for me when needed. But i suppose the difference between him and alot of other vets here is his willingness to listen, and true concern for the animals that he treats.

[RubyStar]

RubyStar - most DOLers I know who get titre testing done price it at around $60.

Oooh how come so cheap!!

[huski]

I didn't realise C5 was meant to help protect from KC (or did I not interpret you correctly, huski?) because Ruby has had a C5 and then proceeded to catch KC a few months later.

As I understand it, the difference between a C3 and a C5 is that the C5 vaccinates against two strains of kennel cough, but because there are so many strains of kennel cough your dog is still at risk of contracting it.

Even my vet says that if you don't board your dogs don't bother with it, go the C3 instead.

ETA: with titre testing I think it should be around the same price because all the vets do is take the blood and send it to the lab in WA for testing, they don't actually test it themselves therefore there shouldn't be a big difference in price from vet to vet. Could be wrong though

Edited March 27, 2009 by huski

[Kirra_Bomber_Zeus]

How often would you need to Titre test to see if a vaccination is required?

My vet suggests every 3 years

[Crisovar]

I didn't realise C5 was meant to help protect from KC (or did I not interpret you correctly, huski?) because Ruby has had a C5 and then proceeded to catch KC a few months later.

My little maltese is 15 years old and hasn't been vaccinated in I can't remember how long And she's a healthy little bugger! (except for infected ears and itchy skin!) So I guess vaccinating yearly seems to be overkill... I trust the opinions and advice of fellow dog owners so probably won't vaccinate my Labs again for another few years. Although, Millie's vaccination has already been paid for in her wellness plan, just needs to have it administered later in the year! After that, that will do her for a while

The problem with Canine Cough is that there are so many strains, the vaccines only cover a couple of them.

[oakway]

How often would you need to Titre test to see if a vaccination is required?

My vet suggests every 3 years

Once the dog has anti bodies in their system they are there for life.

[OSoSwift]

Your other option is to ask them to order in the 3 year C3 vaccination, that way they are covered for boarding etc, but they have one vacc every 3 instead of yearly. I am considering, puppy vacc's 1st yearly booster, then titre testing or three year vacc'ing? not 100% sure which way I will go. My old dog hasn't been vaccinated for quite a few years now as he had a reaction with a huge swollen lump on his neck. He had yearly heartworm once and had a similar but smaller reaction so I don't do that either any more.

[Hastings]

Last may we moved to backwaterlaide, and because we came from interstate and I did't know what diseases were around here, parvo etc, i thought it would be a good idea to vacc my 8 year old boxer, he hadn't been vaccinated since he was 14 months old. Took him to a vet, and said i wanted them to also test for heartworm, he had never had heartworm meds in his life, the vet gave him the all clear for heartworm, then gave one injection, a C5, followed by a second injection, proheart12. Six months later, the dog is dead. He died from mediastinal lymphoma, which is the rarest form of Lymphoma. The vet ,new and current great vet, said judging by the size of the tumour, which was about the size of a fist, he had it for at least 6 months. Was it the proheart that caused the cancer? Well since hearing so many tragic stories about the deaths that it caused in dogs in the u.s and here, and the warnings that are written on the packet for proheart12, as in ,do NOT administer within 1 month of any other vacc, not recommended for geriatric dogs ( over 7 years old ), only to be used on dogs if NO other treatment suitable e.g daily or monthly tabs,

That is terrible. Whether the Proheart12 caused the tumor or not, the package had clear instructions that the vet did not follow. That really makes me angry. I have seen and heard of dogs being vaccinated when they are ill as well - the manufacturers clearly state that a sick dog is NOT to be vaccinated.

i'll let everyone else be their own judge, but i will never be convinced that it didn't cause my dogs cancer, and is why i ask the vet questions about whats being pumped into my dog, cause you obviously can't trust ALL vets to inform you of the risks/ benefits of what they are giving your dogs.

You know, no vet has ever voluntarily advised me of the risks of vaccinations. Even when I asked, before I started doing my own research, I was fobbed off with a 'reactions are so rare and you are endangering your dog if you dont do it'. After my girl had a severe reaction I joined a group of people in Australia whos dogs had also suffered reactions and found there were many more cases than I had imagined.

[Hastings]

Last may we moved to backwaterlaide, and because we came from interstate and I did't know what diseases were around here, parvo etc, i thought it would be a good idea to vacc my 8 year old boxer, he hadn't been vaccinated since he was 14 months old. Took him to a vet, and said i wanted them to also test for heartworm, he had never had heartworm meds in his life, the vet gave him the all clear for heartworm, then gave one injection, a C5, followed by a second injection, proheart12. Six months later, the dog is dead. He died from mediastinal lymphoma, which is the rarest form of Lymphoma. The vet ,new and current great vet, said judging by the size of the tumour, which was about the size of a fist, he had it for at least 6 months. Was it the proheart that caused the cancer? Well since hearing so many tragic stories about the deaths that it caused in dogs in the u.s and here, and the warnings that are written on the packet for proheart12, as in ,do NOT administer within 1 month of any other vacc, not recommended for geriatric dogs ( over 7 years old ), only to be used on dogs if NO other treatment suitable e.g daily or monthly tabs,

That is terrible. Whether the Proheart12 caused the tumor or not, the package had clear instructions that the vet did not follow. That really makes me angry. I have seen and heard of dogs being vaccinated when they are ill as well - the manufacturers clearly state that a sick dog is NOT to be vaccinated.

i'll let everyone else be their own judge, but i will never be convinced that it didn't cause my dogs cancer, and is why i ask the vet questions about whats being pumped into my dog, cause you obviously can't trust ALL vets to inform you of the risks/ benefits of what they are giving your dogs.

You know, no vet has ever voluntarily advised me of the risks of vaccinations. Even when I asked, before I started doing my own research, I was fobbed off with a 'reactions are so rare and you are endangering your dog if you dont do it'. After my girl had a severe reaction I joined a group of people in Australia whos dogs had also suffered reactions and found there were many more cases than I had imagined.

just to add to all this ... one of my dogs has had 2 adverse reactions to immunization. He had a form of seizure within 3 days of being immunised, only short. less than 60 seconds, but still awful. The first time i just thought ,epilepsy. but he had no more. Then he was immunised again next year,with C5, and 3 days later another seizure, the Vet this time put him on to a course of Cortisone to reduce any inflammation ,he had one more small one and no more since. Now his grandaughter has done the same thing .She had her puppy shots at 4 mths and was due to have next at 16mths, but the lady who has her did it at 12mths, too early, a few days after the shot she had a seizure too, as you can quess we will now be very careful what gets immunised and what doesn't. We are thinking of going the way of Titer counts too now.

A very wise Vet I used years ago said to me , do not immunize every year,only 3 or 4 at the most and never immunize anyting over 6 yrs of age ,it is a rip off by the vaccine companies.

I have had linited response from Vets re this problem and most just say ,It shouldn't be the vaccine. Well to coicidental for me, I blame the vaccines.

[Erny]

Your other option is to ask them to order in the 3 year C3 vaccination, that way they are covered for boarding etc, ...

Boarding establishments insist on C5 cover.

Don't know why - even many of the Vets I am speaking to suggest C5 not necessary. To vaccinate C5 just for the sake of observing rules set by the Kennel Board is IMO mere bureacracy and it is high time they caught up with the times. That will include, of course, speaking with their insurance companies, who also have to agree.

[alanglen]

Definately agree with being well educated on the needs for vaccines etc but titre testing is really important.

I hope no-one needs remindering how devastating parvo and distemper are. I certainly never want to see another dog die of ether of these diseases just becase their owners didn't want to vaccinate.

[Kirra_Bomber_Zeus]

Definately agree with being well educated on the needs for vaccines etc but titre testing is really important.

I hope no-one needs remindering how devastating parvo and distemper are. I certainly never want to see another dog die of ether of these diseases just becase their owners didn't want to vaccinate.

And I wouldnt like to see another dog die or end up with a damaged immune system just because their owners vaccinated without considering all options.

I think risk should be assessed for each individual dog each time as well. In my case, I live in WA and Distemper has been very rare here for the last 30 years. Parvo is very dangerous in puppies, but usually not so much in older dogs. So, for me, I will titre test my puppy when he turns 1 for parvo only. I dont usually get my 6 year old and 11 year old titre tested because I dont think its necessary. If I heard of a sudden breakout of distemper, I would probably do it differently.

It is difficult if your vet subscribes to the 'annual vaccination no matter what' school because you are unable to discuss the pros and cons of your individual pet.

[willis08]

Your other option is to ask them to order in the 3 year C3 vaccination, that way they are covered for boarding etc, ...

Boarding establishments insist on C5 cover.

Don't know why - even many of the Vets I am speaking to suggest C5 not necessary. To vaccinate C5 just for the sake of observing rules set by the Kennel Board is IMO mere bureacracy and it is high time they caught up with the times. That will include, of course, speaking with their insurance companies, who also have to agree.

Insurance companies ! I considered getting pet insurance for the new pup that i have, since the vet bill for my last dog Batey, from diagnosis to death, which was 3 weeks, was $3000.00. I looked at what i thought was a really good plan but i had a couple of questions so i rang them and asked after the new pup had 3 vaccinations would they accept a titre test in lieu of vaccs certificate annually, the woman asked me why i didn't want to vaccs yearly, i told her that i thought it was un-necessary and that i was concerned about vaccinosis, she said she had been a vet nurse for 10 years and had never heard of, or seen a dog with vaccinosis, basically a load of crap. I wanted to ask if she'd spent 10 years treating gold fish ? anyway the answer was NO ! if you don't vacc yearly they WILL NOT INSURE the dog .

[Erny]

Insurance companies ! ... anyway the answer was NO ! if you don't vacc yearly they WILL NOT INSURE the dog .

I don't think that's quite true, Willis08. I think you'll find that they will insure, but you would not be covered if your dog was afflicted by any one of the diseases for which vaccinations are routinely given but which you haven't given.

[Erny]

Definately agree with being well educated on the needs for vaccines etc but titre testing is really important.

I hope no-one needs remindering how devastating parvo and distemper are. I certainly never want to see another dog die of ether of these diseases just becase their owners didn't want to vaccinate.

My highlights

Alanglen. This type of statement tends to come up each time there is a discussion on whether to annually vaccinate or not. So just a reminder that no-one is saying to not vaccinate. The discussion of the change of routine in relation to vaccination protocol is about not OVER-vaccinating, which in itself can result in some pretty devastating and fatal conditions.

Some people seem to confuse what is actually being said.

Edited March 28, 2009 by Erny

[willis08]

Insurance companies ! ... anyway the answer was NO ! if you don't vacc yearly they WILL NOT INSURE the dog .

I don't think that's quite true, Willis08. I think you'll find that they will insure, but you would not be covered if your dog was afflicted by any one of the diseases for which vaccinations are routinely given but which you haven't given.

Thanks for the advise erny, it was only one pet insurance company that i asked these questions of, i didn't wish to imply it was all insurance companies. I did specify when i rang them that i only wanted to give C3 vacc, but the woman that i spoke to was quite adamant that if the dog was not vaccinated yearly then my dog would not be covered. If there are other insurance companies that accept titres i would really appreciate knowing.