bobchic Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) Hello Everyone I have recently adopted a little pomeranian puppy Mr Fluffy into my life (and my bf's) He has a great personality. Not scared of much, very interested in anything new and loves to follow me around He was born on Christmas day so around 11weeks. Two things I wanted help on We are starting puppy school this Sunday. But what I want to know is should I be making him sit and wait for his food before I allow him to eat? He doesnt know how to sit yet. And Im sure puppy school with eventually teach him. But Im thinking it might be a week or two before we get to that. Also Mr Fluffy loves to bite my hands!! I have stopped playing with my hands with him. I only allow him to play with toys, not body parts. If this is just a phase how long will it take to pass? What can I do to try inhibit this biting? Here is a pic below of him.. Just wondering... he was purchased privately and his parentage isnt 100%. I viewed the father and mother. Both looked like pure Poms to me, but the owner said the mother came from a breeder who thought she was the result of a pom and chihuahua (why the breeder didnt know for sure I dont understand?) Anyway.. Looking at the pic what do you think? Does he have any real features of a chihuahua? Thanks heaps guys. I have been reading this forum and it has been sooooooo helpful in choosing my puppy type and what things I needed to do when I first brought him home. Sonia Edited March 20, 2009 by bobchic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 enjoy your pup And Im sure puppy school with eventually teach him. LOL No- YOU will teach him!! "Puppy School will teach YOU" Glad he is bright and inquisitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rish Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Also Mr Fluffy loves to bite my hands!! I have stopped playing with my hands with him. I only allow him to play with toys, not body parts. If this is just a phase how long will it take to pass? What can I do to try inhibit this biting? WE just started puppy school as well. The biting i know. You have to yelp (high and loud) and hold your's hands to your cheast, your puppy will get confused at 1st,but in the end they know they are to stop. The feeding is also in this lesson, so it will be taught Our puppy is 5 mths ! ,but this was the 1st lesson we could get her in for,she had all down pat apart from the biting . He look's %100 pom to me,but i think you can only tell from test's. (could you message me privet as to how to get the pic's up ?,iv been trying since i came here and it always says it to big,and i don,t know how small to make them ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rish Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 breeder who thought she was the result of a pom and chihuahua (why the breeder didnt know for sure I dont understand?) The longer i look,the more i can see Chihuahua ,my last baby was a white 1,but then again,i think they look alike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobchic Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 Just came back from puppy school!! he loved meeting the other dogs!! Was VERY excited, and was doing flips and jumps while in class trying to go play lol. But he did well with the sit and stand. He pretty much just tolerated me holding him in the right position lol. He has started biting less but when he does its like he thinks he is grabbing a play toy. I just make a sharp noise and then take my hands away.. Hopefully he will get the message. Thanks heaps for the advise so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Just wondering... he was purchased privately and his parentage isnt 100%. I viewed the father and mother. Both looked like pure Poms to me, but the owner said the mother came from a breeder who thought she was the result of a pom and chihuahua (why the breeder didnt know for sure I dont understand?) Unless you have his pedigree, there's no way of knowing for sure what his heritage is. He doesn't look quite fluffy enough to me to be pure pom, they are more round like a fluffy ball on legs. He's very cute though. At his age, while it's not really necessary to make him sit and wait for his dinner (although you can if you want), it's not a good idea to give it to him if he's in a state of excitement....jumping and yapping cos he can see it in your hand. Wait until he's calm then reward him for his nice behaviour with his dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdogs Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 In the 1st pic I can see chi, he has a slight domed head of the chi. Why was it necessary to hold him in position? If you're using food treats to lure into place there's no need to hold position. A good web site to learn all about puppies/training/bite inhibition is www.dogstardaily.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobchic Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 At puppy training thats how they showed us to teach the dogs how to learn what we wanted them to do. Give the command while placing them in position. Wait for the dog to submit to the position and then release them. Is that a normal technique? The dog school allows use of treats as rewards but promotes positive praise. Has anyone trained with Australia Dog Training in Melbourne? Im attending the Scoresby classes. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Not sure about a "normal" technique, but I prefer for the pup to place themselves in position, lured there with a reward in hand. So for a sit, I would hold my hand over the pups head which makes it look up and the rear end drops into a sit. Give the command "sit" as the rear end drops, praise and reward. For "drop", I'd use a similar technique but bring my hand holding the treat down to the ground and back towards me, encouraging the pup to lower itself to the ground, then extend itself into a drop. Give the command as it's following the lure, praise and reward. They are really the only two positions the pup needs to know, although teaching it to stand is handy for grooming and if you pursue more formal obedience at some stage, the dog will be required to know the stand command and also the hand signal that goes with it. I've never heard of a technique where you place the dog in the position though. Everything I've been taught has been about encouraging the dog to find the correct position itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I personally don't agree with 'forcing' the dog into a position, by placing them in a sit/drop/stand. I don't like the idea of waiting for the dog to "submit" to the position. Training should be all about fun! Google Clicker Training - it's a positive method that uses either shaping (capturing a behaviour by treating when the dog sits by its own choice) or by luring (as GayleK described). Clicker training tends to result in a dog that is happy to offer behaviours as it's associated with positive things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Your puppy is very cute. I can see the chihuahua there. I also would not place in a sit position. These tiny breeds often have patella problems & as he is a cross breed I doubt parents & ancestors would have yearly checks & history, so not good for knees really. All my dogs always sit for food however I dont use food/treats for training much preferring verbal praise. When they seem to have a clue & dont want to do it, usually when grooming puppies I may tilt their chin up a little & tap the bum lightly with one finger, barely touching them. This does the trick & they understand. Everyone has their own way of training, there is no right & wrong way as long as its done with firm kindness & your dog understands what you want it to do. Its what works for you & your dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobchic Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 Hmm.. I am currently in a structured puppy class that will go on to actual dog school after... When doing the stand command they said to support under the chest and wait for the pup to stop squirming (Mr Fluffy didnt squirm at all) and say the Stand command only once. Then once the pup is still, to say Free, or some kind or release word. Then give heaps of pats and fun times. The sit command involved holding the collar in the right hand and use the left to 'scoop' the tail under the pup. Mr Fluffy was in no way forced into the sit position. The puppy is held in position, but the teacher showed us how to not put pressure on their bodies to ensure we dont harm them. They did mention in the class that pushing their bottom down will harm them. Obviously if this is not the correct training technique I will have to reconsider training with this school. I mean, I have paid alot of money to attend training. (Australia Dog Training promotes that they train your dog to a level of obediance. Not by how long it takes you to get there, and then they guarantee the training) Anyone train dogs or been to formal puppy lessons? Thanks for the feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Hmm.. I am currently in a structured puppy class that will go on to actual dog school after...When doing the stand command they said to support under the chest and wait for the pup to stop squirming (Mr Fluffy didnt squirm at all) and say the Stand command only once. Then once the pup is still, to say Free, or some kind or release word. Then give heaps of pats and fun times. The sit command involved holding the collar in the right hand and use the left to 'scoop' the tail under the pup. Mr Fluffy was in no way forced into the sit position. The puppy is held in position, but the teacher showed us how to not put pressure on their bodies to ensure we dont harm them. They did mention in the class that pushing their bottom down will harm them. Obviously if this is not the correct training technique I will have to reconsider training with this school. I mean, I have paid alot of money to attend training. (Australia Dog Training promotes that they train your dog to a level of obediance. Not by how long it takes you to get there, and then they guarantee the training) Anyone train dogs or been to formal puppy lessons? Thanks for the feedback Bobchic, both Erny and Cosmolo are great trainers who live in the Melbourne area so I am sure one of them or one of the other great VIC trainers will drop by to give you some opinions/recommendations From what you have described above it doesn't sound like anything to worry about to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 There is nothing wrong with compulsion. It's very common and widely used... If the dog won't lure then the dog won't lure and you'd have to be an idiot to persist with a method of training that isn't working. I force my dogs into the drop, and they learnt it. If I was luring they'd never have caught on. There is nothing wrong at all with the methods your puppy preschool is using. Personally, I'd try and lure first now that I actually know how to but there is not a thing wrong with using compulsion, many trainers use it. I use it. Terra, marker training can be used in compulsion. It can be used in far more than shaping or luring... I don't know where you get the idea that it can only be used in two ways from? Compulsion still results in a dog enjoying it? You don't force the dog for life, you are simply teaching him the position - they still get plenty of rewards. What would you do if you got a dog that couldn't be lured? Contrary to popular belief, luring does not suit all dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Terra, marker training can be used in compulsion. It can be used in far more than shaping or luring... I don't know where you get the idea that it can only be used in two ways from? Compulsion still results in a dog enjoying it? You don't force the dog for life, you are simply teaching him the position - they still get plenty of rewards. What would you do if you got a dog that couldn't be lured? Contrary to popular belief, luring does not suit all dogs. Of course you can mark and reward with compulsion, I was trying to list some alternatives to what at the time sounded like the OP pushing the dog's rear down into a sit. I prefer hands-off methods and have always found them to work for my dogs. I can only speak from my experiences. Now that the OP has expanded on the method they are being taught, I don't have a problem with that method. It wouldn't be my first port of call, but that doesn't mean it's not a useful method. Sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdog2 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 There is nothing wrong at all with the methods your puppy preschool is using. Personally, I'd try and lure first now that I actually know how to but there is not a thing wrong with using compulsion, many trainers use it. I use it. . My pup is now 16 wks and I have taught her to drop and sit by luring her into position (she caught on quickly using this method ). She is now pretty solid in the drop position and will stay down with me standing beside her. At training last week the trainer was showing the class how to get their pup to drop and used mine as a demo (never again ). He showed the class the forced method, which my pup wasn't used to, and when she fought him he held her down until she cried. He released her just as I walked towards him to grab her off him, and not wanting to cause a scene in front of the class I left it at that. I just wish people were given the option of luring first and if that doesn't work by all means explore other methods that will work for your particular dog - including forcing if that's what works, but don't start with that method! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakemono Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Congrats with your new pom baby! Please keep sharing his pictures with us . I just recently got my own pom myself and he now understands sit and drop command. Someone suggested dogstardaily.com website, and I agree! They have videos accompanying their articles and it helps me a lot on teaching my dog. When it's his eating time, I suggest you search the forum and try the "Triangle of Temptation" technique. It works really well so far in showing him who's the boss in the house. Extra point that he has to sit before getting his food too. About biting, my puppy also has that problem and I haven't fixed it 100%. Keep putting him off you when he starts biting, stand, or leave the room when he does that. Or put his toy near his mouth and hopes it will distract him. Good luck with the rest =). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobchic Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 I just took Mr Fluffy to the vet tonight for his booster shots... Poor fluffy yelped and I felt woozy lol But the vet was great and had Mr Fluffy all cheerful again within a few mins. How does everyone cope with the shots? Heart worm especially!! The vet was very happy with his size and weight. Said Im a good Mum lol... Glad we got the training stuff sorted. I probly should have explained myself better from the start. Thanks guys. you are all so friendly and full of knowledge. How does any dog owner get on with out you all??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I don't give the heartworm injection (not a fan) - we use spot on treatment (Revolution). There are tablets that you can use, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobchic Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 I am very likley to forget to give a heart worm tablet in time. probly best in my circumstance to give the needle... But poor puppy has to deal with the pain How did everyones dog cope with Micro chipping? Are they sore for long after? I am going to have it done at the final vaccination. I didnt want to go overboard for the first vet visit.. (ps.. are there problems with the heart worm needle?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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