Vickie Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) Doing obedience or any sport is working as far as the dictionary definition goes but I would not think obedience dog when someone said "I have a working dog".Some people seem to have decided that "working dogs" are the only "proper" dogs and it somehow makes them better than everyone to use the term. These people thus get quite shirty when anyone else uses the word (though a correct usage) which is plain ridiculous. I think lots of words could be "correct" according to the dictionary...doesn't mean they are always appropriate or meaningful in context through. Take "pedigree" for example. My dictionary says having a register of ancestors. Funnily enough, as per your example, there are people who feel their dogs are the only "proper" dogs according to one specific registration & get shirty when others use the word according to the dictionary. Is that ridiculous too? Edited March 19, 2009 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 If someone uses the phrase "my dog is working well today" then it's ridiculous for the "working dogs are the only proper dogs" people to get shirty. If someone uses the phrase "this is my dog's pedigree" then it's ridiculous for the "ANKC are the only proper dogs" people to get shirty. If someone uses the term "working dog" to imply a stock dog when it's not, then it's wrong. If someone uses the term "pedigree dog" to imply ANKC registered when it's not, then it's wrong. But to use the words as they mean, is not wrong. Thanks for asking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I don't consider obedience work. My dogs consider it work (in a good sense). I don't consider city slicker type herding ie ANKC herding comps working either. Working needs to involve earning a wage for it to be really working. My borders are serious little critters and seem to view most sports as 'work'. I don't have a problem with people saying 'my dog worked well' in regards to obedience training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 "Work" is just a word, it can mean many different things. If a horse trainer says, "I'm just going outside to work the horses", it doesn't mean he is going out to make them earn money. The word "work", can also mean "applied effort". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Do I consider obediecne work? - NO to me its a sport Do I think that they dog doing obedience can display working abilities - YES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilgaPhill Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 It looks as though this discussion is revolving around the semantics of the word "work" A definition of the word is held to be: "exert oneself by doing mental or physical activity for a purpose or out of necessity" Regardless of my own personal "work ethic" which might determine how much exertion justifies the term "work", by the above definition, Obedience / tracking / agility / stock / security, hell even show dogs trained to perform at their peak in the ring are working when they are being trained and when doing what they have been trained to do. Regardless of how much fun it was to do it. The reverse argument could easily apply, is a stock dog working when it is acting out of instinct? Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILK Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) I consider it to be work to a degree because the dog must to what is expected of it, not what it may want to do, but I wouldn't call obedience work I would call it a sport. I would call herding work. Edit after reading entire thread. Edited March 20, 2009 by ILUVKELPIES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keshwar Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I have done (we got our CCD title) obedience with my Afghan Hound. We will do obedience in the future to at least CD level. If I can be bothered to teach him to retrieve we may go further. Is he a working dog? No. Can he do what he is bred for? Yes, but not legally in Australia. Is doing obedience 'work' for us? Hell yeah! Obedience exercises do not come naturally to a sight hound. We had to work at it. But no he is not a working dog. Bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdog2 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I consider work to be some of the following,the Kelpie or BC working all day in the shearing shed,out mustering,drafting sheep,the heeler out working cattle.the police dog on duty,the hunting dog out in the field,the terrier going to earth,the bullcatching dog handling scrubbers,the staghound working a spotlight,the greyhound racing,the drovers dog working the mob all day and so on. Tony I agree with your list of working dogs, although I'm not sure I would include greyhound racing. I know nothing about greyhound racing, however there are other "dog sports" that include dogs chasing objects aren't there? Just because there's money involved shouldn't make any difference as to whether a dog is "working" or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) Seems to me here (without having read all the posts) that if it is something is enjoyed, it is not perceived as "work"? I love my job, but it is "work". When I exercised my horse and put him through his paces, I was "working" my horse. Yet I so enjoyed doing what we were doing and from what I could tell, so did he. Whether it be obedience, herding, agility or whatever - when the animal is in training or performing the skills that have been training, IMO it is "working". So I'm not sure what the confusion is about? Edited March 20, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) Is sledding considered to be "work" by folk? Is a sled racing team competing in the Iditarod "working"? Edited March 20, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I think the main differences in perceptions of "work" is whether or not working instinct is involved. Working dogs generally have an instinctual purpose such as secutity dogs, sheepdogs etc etc. They have been bred for their working ability and can do tasks not every dog can do even within the same breed. The dogs still love their work. I wouldnt class obedience dogs as working dogs. It is totally dependant on the handler if the dog will go well. Any dog can get a CD title. Obedience requires tonnes of effort, dedication and skilled handling and is alot of hard work but not what I would class as a working dog. Eg my last Rotty was a very good obedience dog but could she do what the breed was intended for? No. Was she a working dog? No. I dont think a dog is any more or less if it is a working or obedience dog. Both require lots of work to achieve the desired result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Is a Guide Dog a "working dog"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I often hear people say their dog is working well & it just doesn't sit right with me. Would it be more suitable to say the dog is playing well? My dogs, by ANKC definition, are working dogs. That's good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) Is a Guide Dog a "working dog"? I would class a GD as a working dog. They are serving a purpose, they have specific traits needed, there are breeding programs designed to breed those required workable traits, its certainly not a task every dog is capable of. Edited March 20, 2009 by jesomil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 For me the dog is working if it is using their natural instinctive abilities to perform a task which the dog was specifically bred for. There isn't a single breed that I know of that has instincts specifically tuned for obedience trials and bred for obedience trials. It's even worse when people claim their dog has a working title and you find out it's an obedience title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leema Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Do you think obedience shows a dogs working ability? No. But I do consider obedience and dog sports a form of work (brainwork). Perhaps there is some discrepancies with the term 'working group'. Perhaps pastoral group would not make things so difficult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 For me the dog is working if it is using their natural instinctive abilities to perform a task which the dog was specifically bred for. Labradors weren't bred to lead the blind but they do it extremely well. They are the ultimate working dog, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 For me the dog is working if it is using their natural instinctive abilities to perform a task which the dog was specifically bred for.There isn't a single breed that I know of that has instincts specifically tuned for obedience trials and bred for obedience trials. If I registered one, would you then conceive its a working dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 For me the dog is working if it is using their natural instinctive abilities to perform a task which the dog was specifically bred for.There isn't a single breed that I know of that has instincts specifically tuned for obedience trials and bred for obedience trials. It's even worse when people claim their dog has a working title and you find out it's an obedience title. By your definition Midol, your dog will never be a "working dog". Possibly only the Dobermann and the Black Russian Terrier would be a "working security dog" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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