Allergy/intolerance - Update 28.4.09 Post # 106

[tomas]

Anyone else got any idea's for this? I'm hoping it is something that I can bring under control and have it settle down, but I feel I need to do that fairly quickly before it creates more trouble for his ears than what there is already. I have massaged his ear drum from the outside and it does not appear to be sore. Only the flaps and the redness goes a bit patchy further down towards the ear canal (where the gristley bits are).

Sorry I missed this,for the ears I used Triz Edta as a pre cleanse,then about an hour later a medicated drop that I got from my Derm vet. ears were 100 % in about a week to 10 days and his were FOUL!

The triz prepares the ear for the medication. Makes it that much more effective.

Tomas.

[tomas]

Erny,

I have just read a llot more of your posts,sounds like a yeast problem to me.

On the Nzymes site did you see this page?

http://secure.nzymes.com/pc/viewContent.asp?idpage=16

Down the bottom it tells you what food you can feed and what to avoid. Cottage Cheese is one to avoid,I see you have been feeding this.

Tomas.

[Erny]

Down the bottom it tells you what food you can feed and what to avoid. Cottage Cheese is one to avoid,I see you have been feeding this.

Tomas.

Thanks for the link, Tomas. I'll go have a squizz. He's not been having cottage cheese since I switched EP formulas (2 days' ago) from the holistic large breed puppy to the duck & oatmeal. Prior to that, cottage cheese, goats' milk and yogurt were the only things that sustained him in between him barely eating.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Erny

[zayda_asher]

Just thought I would post this info on "systemic yeast" from Monica Segal (it's from her news letter, link at bottom)... it's well worth reading:

Myth of the Month - Systemic Yeast

There is a never-ending circle of myths that make their way around the Internet. The printed word seems to have a lot of impact on people. The more we continue to read the same thing over and over, the more believable it may seem.

We can all agree that making decisions on behalf of our dogs is a serious responsibility and that deciding what to believe should be based on facts rather than myths. A myth that is repeated again and again, no matter how loudly, remains a myth. Our monthly newsletter is going to discuss some of the myths and attempt to balance this with a reality check. Please feel free to write to us about subjects you would like to see addressed in this area in the future.

Systemic Yeast

Yeast problems have been discussed on my Yahoogroups list, K9Kitchen. New members, having read elsewhere that carbohydrates feed yeast or even cause it, often bringing this point up. They are usually convinced that "sweet" vegetables such as carrots are part of feeding yeast and grains are absolutely connected to problems.

Here's the scoop:

Before deciding that your dog has a yeast "problem," it's probably best to visit your veterinarian. Get a culture and sensitivity done and see what comes back. At one point, my vet was sure that Zoey had only yeast in one ear. The culture showed yeast AND bacteria at the time. Yeast is a secondary problem. Had we just solved the yeast issue, heaven knows how much the bacteria would have proliferated and in what shape Zoey would have been in. We treated the bacteria - the yeast calmed down by itself.

In dogs, the most common form of yeast is called Malassezia. This is not systemic! The skin is one organ. Regardless of whether we see yeast in the ear or on the belly -- we're looking at skin. A systemic problem involves the "system" i.e. many organs within the body.

Since yeast is a normal resident of the skin, we can only see an overgrowth. The cause of this overgrowth is an underlying problem and the "cure" is to find it and deal with it. The overgrowth can be caused by any number of problems including disease factors and food allergies. For our purposes, food allergies are the focus.

A dog that is allergic to oats and has a yeast overgrowth is likely to have the yeast calm down when oats are removed from the diet. However, a dog allergic to beef and dealing with a yeast overgrowth will have the same positive reaction when beef is omitted from the diet. In other words, there is no direct connection between carbohydrates and yeast problems. Instead, the link is that we have discovered the problematic food and eliminated it.

One of the reasons that some people claim a direct link between carbohydrates and yeast is that the body converts carbohydrates to glucose. Like other organisms, yeast feeds on simple glucose. However, the brain has an absolute requirement for glucose. It stands to reason that no matter what is fed or not fed, the body has mechanisms in place to support brain function. Even when we omit carbohydrates from the diet, glucose is part of the picture. The body converts fats and if necessary, protein into glucose in order to support the brain.

Feeding more or fewer carbohydrates does not impact yeast overgrowth unless the dog is allergic to a certain carbohydrate. The allergy is the underlying cause of the yeast problem – not the carbohydrate itself. In this case, a certain carbohydrate is no more the cause of a yeast problem to a dog that tolerates this source than lamb would be the cause of yeast problem to a dog tolerant of lamb.

Systemic yeast and Candida have been blamed for everything from diarrhea to cancer. Systemic yeast in dogs is so rare that it makes medical reports in journals! In cases of systemic yeast, the dog is so sick that we're not talking about an inflamed ear or an itchy paw. There is reading material that clearly shows yeast in dogs to be a secondary problem and not the primary issue. The links below are of particular interest.

Good article on yeast and dogs:

www.dog.com/vet/dermatology/05.html

A report of one of the rare cases where Candida was a problem:

www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/2002/summer/finaldx.shtml

These notes pertain to dogs and farm animals:

education.vetmed.vt.edu/Curriculum/VM8334/TomInzana/Lecture7.html

http://www.monicasegal.com/newsletters/200...?products_id=72

[Erny]

Update on Mandela's ear problem : The cooled boiled water/white vinegar has been keeping the inflamation at bay, but having been watching carefully for signs of discomfort further down the ear canal and noting as at last night that there were concerning signs in one ear, I took him off to the Vet this morning.

A swab shows that there is the presence of "budding" yeast. Not "full-blown" at this stage. And not many of them (3 or 4 from the studied swab sample). Have been prescribed "Malacetic Otic" drops. Holding off on antibiotic drops hoping the Malacetic will do the job, as we're trying to avoid this yeast problem becoming resistant.

Spoke to the EP referred person - we're cutting out the Vitamin C tab and the Spirulena as Mandela's stools aren't consistently good, and because he's begun to let (bad) wind lately. I'm working backwards in a way - if he doesn't improve with those things removed from his diet then I'll cut out one of the other two additives one at a time, to see if that makes a difference.

Touch wood ..... he is still enjoying the EP Duck formula.

Edited April 28, 2009 by Erny

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Touch wood ..... he is still enjoying the EP Duck formula.

Touching wood and crossing fingers for you! Isn't it funny how they all do sooo differently on certain foods - EP duck just did not agree with my boy then we changed to Orijen and he looked amazing for ages! Granted it was winter but that was the best he ever looked, then we did the two elimination trials and his condition faded. But he is into his second bag of Artmeis and he is starting to look nicer - even his nose has almost become black again!

Edited April 28, 2009 by First Time Puppy Owner

[Erny]

Wow!! This is a bit off topic, but I am so stoked! Eagle Pack (Aust) are aware of the problems I've had with my boy (first the carpal laxity syndrome, which with EP diet grew through and out ) and more recently his tummy issues. Anyway, apparently a few of them were discussing the more recent events (ie change of formula to Duck) and one of their staff actually rang ME today to enquire as to how he was going and to see if they could help out further (they've made one or two suggestions and will be following through with me).

IMO, that is so going above and beyond the call of duty and I am so thrilled at the fact they really care. .

Edited April 30, 2009 by Erny

[Erny]

Oh .... and an update on his ears.

He absolutely hated the Malacetic Otic ear wash which I did last night. But this morning admittedly his ears appeared cool and a nice pale colour. I followed through with another wash (as per Vet instruction) and he hated this too (shook/trembling). It actually caused his ears to inflame. I've spoken to the Vet and I'm stopping this treatment. Will pick up some antibiotic/anti inflammatory drops which I'll at least use on the lesions (one on the inside of the tip of his ear flap is the worst - started from when he scratched it, but with the shaking from the ear wash, it has opened it back up and made it larger). Hopefully this other stuff will soothe it. I'm going to hold off putting any down his ears - I'm hoping they might now settle down on their own. But at least the drops will be there for me to use if I need them.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Erny

[tomas]

Oh .... and an update on his ears.

He absolutely hated the Malacetic Otic ear wash which I did last night. But this morning admittedly his ears appeared cool and a nice pale colour. I followed through with another wash (as per Vet instruction) and he hated this too (shook/trembling). It actually caused his ears to inflame. I've spoken to the Vet and I'm stopping this treatment. Will pick up some antibiotic/anti inflammatory drops which I'll at least use on the lesions (one on the inside of the tip of his ear flap is the worst - started from when he scratched it, but with the shaking from the ear wash, it has opened it back up and made it larger). Hopefully this other stuff will soothe it. I'm going to hold off putting any down his ears - I'm hoping they might now settle down on their own. But at least the drops will be there for me to use if I need them.

Erny have you tried Thornits on his ears. it's a zinc powder ,it's useful for mites and allergies. I use it on my guys as they swim a lot and never have issues,unless I forget to do t for a few months

Here is a link you can look at,so you clean the ear as you have been doing and just dust this in the ear,not down the canal,I bet overnight his ears will be cool and calm

http://www.tep-for-pets.com/acatalog/info_40.html

NEVER failed to clear up an ear issue I might have,no matter what it was...though not sure where you will get it in Aussie but someone must sell it or someone must know where it is sold...

Tomas.

[stormie]

Update on Mandela's ear problem : The cooled boiled water/white vinegar has been keeping the inflamation at bay, but having been watching carefully for signs of discomfort further down the ear canal and noting as at last night that there were concerning signs in one ear, I took him off to the Vet this morning.

A swab shows that there is the presence of "budding" yeast. Not "full-blown" at this stage. And not many of them (3 or 4 from the studied swab sample). Have been prescribed "Malacetic Otic" drops. Holding off on antibiotic drops hoping the Malacetic will do the job, as we're trying to avoid this yeast problem becoming resistant.

Spoke to the EP referred person - we're cutting out the Vitamin C tab and the Spirulena as Mandela's stools aren't consistently good, and because he's begun to let (bad) wind lately. I'm working backwards in a way - if he doesn't improve with those things removed from his diet then I'll cut out one of the other two additives one at a time, to see if that makes a difference.

Touch wood ..... he is still enjoying the EP Duck formula.

Hey Erny, Spirulena gives Orbit foul diarrhoea. Fingers crossed removing those two things helps with his stools.

[Erny]

Ok - I had two threads running because initially I thought they related to two different issues. But as things unfolded it has become suspect that they are related. Simply for archive sake this post is merely so that I can include a link to the other thread, which now really follows on with information about what I thought was allergy and also about my boy's leg issue.

My Boy Has Hurt His Leg

[oonga]

hmmmm just posting in here so it shows up as a thread i have posted in incase you decide to update in here i don't want to miss it

[Erny]

I have decided to run with the "sore leg" thread from here on Oonga, particularly considering as how one issue seems to now be crossing with the other issue.

But really appreciate your interest . Thanks .