Toilet Training Problem

[jin]

My pup is an inside dog, and when we got him we used newspaper training to train him to go to the toilet in a certain spot in the spare toilet. this was working great for a few weeks and i would see him go into the room of his own accord and do his business on the paper.

however, over the last couple of weeks he has been going all over the house. he does go on his paper in the room too, but he now also goes everywhere else (except his bed and feeding areas), which he never used to do before. I'm completely baffled and don't know what i'm doing wrong.

some other info which may help:

- my puppy is now 12 weeks old

- he is now let into the general area of the house (but not bedrooms). i thought about whether it was at this point that the toilet training went wrong (we originally used a baby gate and he was confined to one area of the house), but i'm not sure. there was a transition period where we started letting him into the rest of the house for a few hours and then putting him back in the confined area- i think it may have started then.

- i trained him by taking him to the papers and telling him to 'go wee wees'.

- when he does something wrong, if i catch him i say 'no no', and take him (sometimes midstream) to the papers. if i don't catch him i just clean it up. i never yell at or slap him.

am i doing something wrong? any advice would be much appreciated.

[Di*]

My pup is an inside dog, and when we got him we used newspaper training to train him to go to the toilet in a certain spot in the spare toilet. this was working great for a few weeks and i would see him go into the room of his own accord and do his business on the paper.

however, over the last couple of weeks he has been going all over the house. he does go on his paper in the room too, but he now also goes everywhere else (except his bed and feeding areas), which he never used to do before. I'm completely baffled and don't know what i'm doing wrong.

some other info which may help:

- my puppy is now 12 weeks old

- he is now let into the general area of the house (but not bedrooms). i thought about whether it was at this point that the toilet training went wrong (we originally used a baby gate and he was confined to one area of the house), but i'm not sure. there was a transition period where we started letting him into the rest of the house for a few hours and then putting him back in the confined area- i think it may have started then.

- i trained him by taking him to the papers and telling him to 'go wee wees'.

- when he does something wrong, if i catch him i say 'no no', and take him (sometimes midstream) to the papers. if i don't catch him i just clean it up. i never yell at or slap him.

am i doing something wrong? any advice would be much appreciated.

I think go back to confining him to a smaller area and increase his access to the rest of the house slowly. They seem to lose the plot a bit when they are too far away from the toileting area or have too much choice about where to go. Of course make sure you clean up the mistakes with a quality product that will remove doggie odours.

good luck with it

Di

[puggy_puggy]

He is still a baby I wouldn't be worry to much. He could be starting to test you as well.

Does he have to be an indoor dog? ie. do you have a garden or yard you take take him out to toilet in?

I believe that if a dog has a yard to go to the toilet in then it should go out there from day one. Newspaper and tolet training pads confuse the little things into thinking it's ok for them to toilet in the house. Yes when you can not supervise your puppy have him in an enclosed space like a puppy pen with some newspaper down for accidents but otherwise yous hould be taking your pup outside regularily and encouraging them to toilet out there.

[jin]

He is still a baby I wouldn't be worry to much. He could be starting to test you as well.

Does he have to be an indoor dog? ie. do you have a garden or yard you take take him out to toilet in?

I believe that if a dog has a yard to go to the toilet in then it should go out there from day one. Newspaper and tolet training pads confuse the little things into thinking it's ok for them to toilet in the house. Yes when you can not supervise your puppy have him in an enclosed space like a puppy pen with some newspaper down for accidents but otherwise yous hould be taking your pup outside regularily and encouraging them to toilet out there.

Thanks guys. Yeah he does have to be an indoor dog unfortunately because I don't have an outside area! i know its harder for the poor little guy but he seemed to have learned it so well- I guess he never really was trained at all.

[bakemono]

I'm still training mine too, but one thing that works for me is when you let him wander around in your house don't forget to take him to the right place for toilet every hour. It minimises the damage he could do to the house and reinforces the toilet area. Good luck =)

[jin]

Thanks for all your suggestions! Today I confined the puppy in one area near his toilet while I was at work, and it was fine. I let him out when I got home, and he didn't go on the carpet, but he peed near his water bowl! I'm even more baffled now- he's NEVER gone anywhere near where he eats, even when he was an 8 week old. He did it twice- the first time I didn't catch him, the second time I did. He really does seem to be going backwards! I told him off and now I'm ignoring him for a bit. I think he's definitely going to need to be confined tonight!

[Odin-Genie]

Thanks for all your suggestions! Today I confined the puppy in one area near his toilet while I was at work, and it was fine. I let him out when I got home, and he didn't go on the carpet, but he peed near his water bowl! I'm even more baffled now- he's NEVER gone anywhere near where he eats, even when he was an 8 week old. He did it twice- the first time I didn't catch him, the second time I did. He really does seem to be going backwards! I told him off and now I'm ignoring him for a bit. I think he's definitely going to need to be confined tonight!

He's still a baby. He isn't doing it intentionally. As Di said, get a good doggy odour remover. Urine Off worked really well for me when I was toilet training my dogs. If the odour stays (and household cleaners don't remove the odour), he will keep going at the same spot.

[poodlefan]

Jin:

He really does seem to be going backwards! I told him off and now I'm ignoring him for a bit.

Neither of which will assist with teaching him where he needs to go. You'll just confuse him.

My guess is that the accidents started happening when you gave him more free rein and supervised him less? Go back to basics and only give him more space when he's reliably going on the paper.

He's still a baby with a pretty unreliable bladder. You will need to be vigilant for some weeks yet.

Just out of interest, how much unfiltered sunlight does he get in a day?

[jin]

Jin:

He really does seem to be going backwards! I told him off and now I'm ignoring him for a bit.

Neither of which will assist with teaching him where he needs to go. You'll just confuse him.

My guess is that the accidents started happening when you gave him more free rein and supervised him less? Go back to basics and only give him more space when he's reliably going on the paper.

He's still a baby with a pretty unreliable bladder. You will need to be vigilant for some weeks yet.

Just out of interest, how much unfiltered sunlight does he get in a day?

Hmm not sure about that one. He doesn't go in the wrong place when I'm not in the house; only when I'm there and watching him. I think he knows where to go, based on his past behaviour. I tend to agree with someone else's comment earlier- I think he's testing the boundaries a bit. I'm trying going back to basics- hopefully that works!

Re sunlight- he gets as much as I do I guess , about 2 hours a day during his walks. My place is north facing and he gets a lot of sun indoors though.

[jin]

Jin:

He really does seem to be going backwards! I told him off and now I'm ignoring him for a bit.

Neither of which will assist with teaching him where he needs to go. You'll just confuse him.

My guess is that the accidents started happening when you gave him more free rein and supervised him less? Go back to basics and only give him more space when he's reliably going on the paper.

He's still a baby with a pretty unreliable bladder. You will need to be vigilant for some weeks yet.

Just out of interest, how much unfiltered sunlight does he get in a day?

Hmm not sure about that one. He doesn't go in the wrong place when I'm not in the house; only when I'm there and watching him. I think he knows where to go, based on his past behaviour. I tend to agree with someone else's comment earlier- I think he's testing the boundaries a bit. I'm trying going back to basics- hopefully that works!

Re sunlight- he gets as much as I do I guess , about 2 hours a day during his walks. My place is north facing and he gets a lot of sun indoors though.

[poodlefan]

Hmm not sure about that one. He doesn't go in the wrong place when I'm not in the house; only when I'm there and watching him.

Are you absolutely sure? Small puppy accidents are easy to miss.

I think he knows where to go, based on his past behaviour. I tend to agree with someone else's comment earlier- I think he's testing the boundaries a bit. I'm trying going back to basics- hopefully that works!

I doubt it. He's a baby puppy with an unreliable bladder. I find it helps to eliminate any human reasons for the behaviour before looking towards the dog.

Re sunlight- he gets as much as I do I guess , about 2 hours a day during his walks. My place is north facing and he gets a lot of sun indoors though.

Vitamin D generation requires unfiltered sunlight. Do you really walk him for 2 hours a day? That's a heap of exercise for such a baby.

[Stitch]

Puppies/dogs are instinctive so it is incorrect to humanise their behaviours by thinking that they are trying to 'test' you in some way.

When you are not at home the level of distraction is not high but when you are home there are many things to distract a pup.

As their brain is not fully developed yet it is reasonable to assume that the conditioning your pup has received in order to toilet train them to the level they are at has become confused because of the lack of confinement that was allowed and the distractions in their environment.

As others have said, go back to square one, confine the pup to a smaller more manageable area. Keep them away from areas you don't want soiled and when they are out of their designated area keep an eye on them at all times so that you can correct an inappropriate behaviour.

And, be consistant and patient.

[jin]

Puppies/dogs are instinctive so it is incorrect to humanise their behaviours by thinking that they are trying to 'test' you in some way.

When you are not at home the level of distraction is not high but when you are home there are many things to distract a pup.

As their brain is not fully developed yet it is reasonable to assume that the conditioning your pup has received in order to toilet train them to the level they are at has become confused because of the lack of confinement that was allowed and the distractions in their environment.

As others have said, go back to square one, confine the pup to a smaller more manageable area. Keep them away from areas you don't want soiled and when they are out of their designated area keep an eye on them at all times so that you can correct an inappropriate behaviour.

And, be consistant and patient.

Thanks Stitch. How do you suggest I correct him? Is saying 'No' okay? Should I do more/less?

[Stitch]

You have to catch the unwanted behaviour in its very first stages which is not always easy.

You then have to interrupt the behaviour in the area you don't want to be soiled and then encourage the dog to the place you want them to toilet and then praise if they do it. You can do this by using a word ie. no or by clapping your hands or whatever but it should be short and snappy.

Personally I try to think for the dog/puppy. When I let a puppy out of its area inside or when I bring them inside I always have them on a lead so I can monitor them. I take them outside to toilet hourly or whatever I think their bladders need to empty and I tell them to 'do wee' and then praise them for doing what they are told.

They of course have obsolutely no idea what I am talking about initially but after many repetitions a behaviour and word association is established.

My adult dogs all urinate on command which is very handy especially on a wet night.

[jin]

You have to catch the unwanted behaviour in its very first stages which is not always easy.

You then have to interrupt the behaviour in the area you don't want to be soiled and then encourage the dog to the place you want them to toilet and then praise if they do it. You can do this by using a word ie. no or by clapping your hands or whatever but it should be short and snappy.

Personally I try to think for the dog/puppy. When I let a puppy out of its area inside or when I bring them inside I always have them on a lead so I can monitor them. I take them outside to toilet hourly or whatever I think their bladders need to empty and I tell them to 'do wee' and then praise them for doing what they are told.

They of course have obsolutely no idea what I am talking about initially but after many repetitions a behaviour and word association is established.

My adult dogs all urinate on command which is very handy especially on a wet night.

Thanks very much for that. I do tell him to 'go wee wee' everytime i take him there or he goes there- i doubt its making much traction right now but i'll keep trying!!

[luvsdogs]

My dogs live inside/outside. Whenever they are in the house by themselves they are confined to 'their' room & are not allowed full access to the house. It's important to not scold the pup for going in the wrong place bc he will hide from you when he wants to go. What are you going to do when he gets older, paper isn't going to be enough.?

[Stitch]

Taking the pups/dogs outside to toilet has to become part of your routine - part of owning a dog.

It has to continue until, one day, you find that they are asking to go outside all by themselves and remember sometimes they ask silently, by their body language only.

I have found that medium to large dogs learn very quickly, some automatically will not soil inside unless their need to go outside is ignored or not noticed - small dogs usually take much longer, sometimes many months, and they can appear to be trained but then revert to being unclean which just means that the initial training hadn't really gone on for long enough.

Edited March 11, 2009 by STITCH

[mademoisellemika]

I understand your frustration!

Just got our puppy this morning and we've lined up 2 training pads in our apartment - everytime we catch her in the act, we'll let out a stern "No!" and quickly pick her up to put her down on the pad... but unfortunately everytime she gets to the pad, she doesn't seem to want to go. Tried it 4 times and each time half of the wee still gets onto the carpet... :D

The first time we confined her to the toilet area for over 15 mins and she still doesn't want to go.

Oh well.... hopefully it gets better - she's already napping in her crate!

[poodlefan]

I understand your frustration!

Just got our puppy this morning and we've lined up 2 training pads in our apartment - everytime we catch her in the act, we'll let out a stern "No!" and quickly pick her up to put her down on the pad... but unfortunately everytime she gets to the pad, she doesn't seem to want to go. Tried it 4 times and each time half of the wee still gets onto the carpet... :D

The first time we confined her to the toilet area for over 15 mins and she still doesn't want to go.

Oh well.... hopefully it gets better - she's already napping in her crate!

Personally I'd lose the correction. It's not stopping the behaviour and it may encourage her to wee out of sight to avoid being told off. Take her to the pads when she wakes, after eating/drinking and after play. I'd be keeping her in her crate unless she's supervised.

[Dogsfevr]

I understand your frustration!

Just got our puppy this morning and we've lined up 2 training pads in our apartment - everytime we catch her in the act, we'll let out a stern "No!" and quickly pick her up to put her down on the pad... but unfortunately everytime she gets to the pad, she doesn't seem to want to go. Tried it 4 times and each time half of the wee still gets onto the carpet... :D

The first time we confined her to the toilet area for over 15 mins and she still doesn't want to go.

Oh well.... hopefully it gets better - she's already napping in her crate!

First off toilet training isnt a frustration,it is totally reliant on the effort humans put in & the confusing signals they give.

People need to understand that most pups come from a breeder where they get a great deal of time outside,

When our puppies leave here are trained to use a doggy door & spend alot of time outside weather permitting.When they wake up we take them outside to the grass straight away & whilst having the paper there prefer to skip that stage & go straight outside.Our pups at 6 weeks will tell us they need out.

When they go to there homes 95% follow the same pattern & it works very well.others change the routine for what ever reason & often it takes longer for the pup as it is now learning a how new deal & with owners who want quick results & it doesnt happen like that.

Toilet training is like nappy training.You must be vigilant watching for the signs & put the extra effort in when home.

getting frustrated with a pup will make it harder.it doesnt understand whats expected but associates that object with disappointment .