laeral Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 I have a question regarding how to teach my dog to tie up. Seems simple enough, but somehow it is not someting that I have managed very succesfully A bit of background. I have a 2 year old GSD who as a puppy suffered quite a bit of seperation anxiety. She would jump the fence if I was on the other side of it and if I left her anywhere would scream and scream like she was being murdered. We have dealt with this to some extent and I can happily leave her in the backyard etc and she is generaly quiet. When we are out somewhere unfamiliar, it is a different story. She is normaly a 'vocal' dog who isnt shy of voicing her own opinions, but she really screams like I am torturing her. I cant tie her up anywhere without her screaming blue murder. It is so bad that I must admit I have kind of avoided the issue. I dont generaly have a need to tie her up so dont. If anyone saw us at kepala at the Dec meet you would know what I am talking about. I tied her up next to my chair during lunch and went to get some food. I was maybe 10 meters away were she could see me. Well did she carry on, it was most embarrasing. But when I went back to her she was so anxious she was jumping up on me clawing (which she never does) and screaming louder. She was almost shaking she was so stressed. Like she thought she was being left behind. I hate to see her like that. I have tried TOT which she responded well to, but she is comfortable at home and doesnt cry as much when tied up, it is only if I take her somewhere else. I have also tried tying her up for short spaces of time to get her used to it. The problem is she never relaxes and I think she would scream for an hour so it just teaches her that screaming gets her what she wants. I would really appreciete other thoughts on how to deal with this. While I dont really tie her up much, it would be good if i could should the need arrise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Sheppies must be screamers Diesel used to do this too, was so embarrassing ;) Still occasionally does it when I tie him up but much better than it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laeral Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 Sheppies must be screamers Diesel used to do this too, was so embarrassing ;) Still occasionally does it when I tie him up but much better than it used to be. Ive never heard anything like it. Ive goten used to the fact that she screams when shes excited, and it doesnt bother me so much, but people look at her strangely like shes in pain When will it end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Can you tie her up but stay with her? Then gradually move away but stay in sight and build up the distance. It sounds like she suffers some extreme anxiety at the thought of you leaving her, the poor darling. My Aussie girl is a bit the same. She's gotten better as she's gotten older but she simply hates it when I go away from her, especially if we're not at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laeral Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 Gaylek its horribe to see her like that I think tying her up and being near her would work if I started in places she felt comfortable and then slowly bulit up to strange places. If I try it say in the street or at kepala ;) she starts to carry on as soon as I go to tie her up. Makes me sad to think i have created this dependence in my poor girl. She is such a happy, energetic dog normaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Gaylek its horribe to see her like that Yes it is. I can sympathise, as Dusty can get quite anxious in certain situations and all I want to do is reassure her that everything's ok and that no one is going to hurt us and no one is going to leave her. She doesn't like one of my sons, he's never done anything bad to her but when she was a puppy, he came in the house with his motorbike gear on and scared her. So now she gets terribly anxious if he's around (he doesn't live with us), and growls, paces, whines and barks at him. We went to stay with him and for 5 days, she suffered from terrible anxiety and wouldn't relax when he was home. It was awful to see her so worried and scared, although she was perfectly safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 (edited) Are you 100% certain it is seperation anxiety and not attention seeking? Montu was doing something similar and I thought it was seperation anxiety but when my sec trainer saw him do it he did a few tests (behind fences, me out of sight, me in sight) and said it was simply attention seeking. He had similar symptoms to your dog but they were just excitement from me returning (rather than anxious or being distressed). You know your dog best so it very well could be seperation anxiety but it is worth considering whether it is just attention seeking. Once I stopped letting him win, it ended. He still goes a bit stupid in his run before training but at least now he doesn't act like he is being murdered when I leave him on a rope or with someone else. Edited March 8, 2009 by Just Midol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 As Midol suggests, denied access is different to separation distress. As we can't see nor know your dog, you need to determine that. It may also be the insecurity of being in a less than familiar environment. Either way, what about generalising the locations you work the TOT? Also gradually introduce tie-out in incremental stages as someone else suggesed. Before you get to the stage of leaving your dog on a tie-out on his own, try having a 'stand-in' person stay with your dog while you do it and see if that reduces your dog's anxiety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Laeral. as Midol and Erny said I would be dealing with identifying the actual core issue first and deal with it before tying up.Its always sensible to make sure a dog walks on a loose lead before tying up as that way no Oppositional Reflex is set off. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laeral Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 Thanks for your replys everyone. I have had a bit to think about. After some consideration I think maybe there are a few factors at play. But to be honest I am now having a little difficulty diagnosing seperation anxiety Mica while not being overly clingy, does like to be near me at all times and keep me in her sight. If I go somewhere else, another room or somewhere else on the property she will get distressed if she cannot follow. NOT distressed in that she seems anxious when I get back, she just gets excited to see me. She does not ike to have barrier between us and used to jump fences if i was on the other side of one. Now she just crys. If I tie her up somwhere familiar, like out the front or at my mums place that she knows very well, she will carry on and scream per usual, but again I dont think this her being anxious and distressed. More like she is carying on because she is objecting to being tied up and is restrained But when she is in an unfamiliar enviroment and I have had to tie her up, that is when she has become very distressed and anxious. However in that same enviroment she will be perfectly happy and confident if not tied up. She still likes me to be within sight of her, but is perfectly happy to wander about and do her own thing. For example we can be at an unfamiliar park, Mica is off lead, she will wonder and sniff a good 50 meters away if I let her and have no issue. If I then tied her up and wandered 10 meters away she would be in a state of distress when I returned to her. This is what I thought was speration anxiety. I have also seen this level of distress if someone has had occassion to take her leash and walk her away from me. She will not scream and carry on, but upon return to me she will be quite anxious. Again this in an unfamiliar environment. I hope I am being clear, I am just writing my thoughts as it is easier for me that way So Im wondering if there are 2 things going on here. 1 being that she just hates being tied up full stop, or i havent taught her to properly, and so she carrys on suitably (attention seeking). 2. An unfamiliar envorinment, coupled with being tied up is causing seperation anxiety. Does this make any sense? Maybe there is a third option being that she is just attention seeking as Midol suggestedl and i am to dim to recognise it Either way, i will work again on TOT in differing environments, and will slowly introduce the tie out in incremental stages and see if this improves thing. Tonymc, we have been working on loose leash walking, though she still will pull if not reminded. So I shall increase my efforts in this area. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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