Serps And Threadles

[laffi]

I am still trying to understand the differences between handling systems

Does anyone have clips of sequences/trials etc where someone handles in GD system and someone handles differently so I could see the difference?

If I were you I would try to find youtubes from agility world championships and analyze how differently handlers approached the same courses. Then you will know a little more what it means to have a handling system.

A place to start would be to watch Canada Agility Team as they posted heaps of their runs there. Most of the Canada Agility Team were influenced by SG/GD but if you try to find Europeans running these courses you will see how different they were.

[poodlefan]

One of the World Championship DVDs morphs the 1st and 2nd place runners runs onto the same screen - fascinating to watch how handling decisions and equipment execution can make or lose time.

[laffi]

One of the World Championship DVDs morphs the 1st and 2nd place runners runs onto the same screen - fascinating to watch how handling decisions and equipment execution can make or lose time.

I agree

[leopuppy04]

Watching the FCI world champs would be a great place to start too :rolleyes:

While I am a GD fan, he did say himself that a lot of our courses are buggers for him to be able to keep to his system. Not that they can't be done, but that they can be complicated to execute.

[poodlefan]

Watching the FCI world champs would be a great place to start too :rolleyes:

While I am a GD fan, he did say himself that a lot of our courses are buggers for him to be able to keep to his system. Not that they can't be done, but that they can be complicated to execute.

That was one thing I noticed comparing the North American and European handlers at the worlds - the North American handling was a lot more complicated.. got the job done but they seemed to be working a lot harder.

[Kavik]

OK found an interesting comparison there

and

[kelpiechick]

I'm not sure you would really see a diffrence when watching some one run it???

If you watch someone really running it well, you will see a big difference.

And before the NSW DST'ers jump on a soapbox again - we don't seem to have the same problems in Vic. that you guys appear to do in regarding to brainwashing and making comments about other's systems outside the ring, fortunately.......... I am not saying that you will see a difference as one system is 'better' than another - we all think the system we follow is better and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. (Who wants a whole lot of clones running around on a course!)

What I am trying to say is that if you watch an accomplished GD handler and an accomplished APHS handler for example, you will see a big difference in the body and location cues used as they negotiate the course - as a consequence the handling strategies that both adopt on course are usually very different.

Both 'systems' work for both handlers and both will be able to give you a different rationale as to why they believe their 'system' works the way it does. And that's fine by me.

LB, the problem you have in Vic. is that there are not all that many handlers truly running the GD system.

Many think because they understand the rationale behind BCBL and RZ and use a threadle arm when handling a serpentine that they are handling a la GD - and it is so much more than this. And it can also take years to perfect (there are particular foundation skills that are absolutely vital to train first before you jump straight into it) - which is why a lot don't stick with it as they look for an option that might bring quicker results for them.

As someone pointed out .... when the next seminar rolls along - and this is very true for a lot of people but for those of us who have been committed to trying to learn to handle in a particular system for more than 2 years now, well the brainwashing comments are just downright rude IMO.

You will always get seminar junkies - plus when you are starting out I think you do need to go to lots of seminars and try different things before you get the feel of how you want to run your dog. How did we all make a decision about which handling system to adopt anyway? I tried lots of things before I became 'brainwashed' (as it was so lovingly referred to.)

The problem with seminars is that many are also narrow minded about them and think of them in handling terms only.

Don't forget the training component. You may not want to handle in a particular way but I will bet that those not running the GD system could have still learned lots of valuable training ideas (especially in Laura's foundation seminar) which would have been compatible with their own system. I would imagine the same thing would also be true for Ronda Carter.

I think it's best to be as open minded as possible when starting out before you decide if a particular system will work for you -but once you decide then you need to be consistent with it, and not adopt 'a bit of this and a bit of that.'

I have had a private lesson with a US trainer who does not follow the GD system and got loads out of it because she respected the system that I am trying to run and developed her lesson to focus on things between our systems that are compatible.(yes, there are quite a few things) .... and it was brilliant. So even though we may not be handling in the same way, I would have no hesitation in working with this person again.

Pity not all of us seem to have this same level of respect but can't wait to point out 'inconsistencies' in particular systems - or as perceived to them anyway. And why someone would think a particular move in a system was inconsistent but then turn around and say that they follow this system? is beyond me.

LB, I am not entered tomorrow but next time I see you at a trial I am happy to point out one handler using GD system that I would recommend you watch and you will see a big difference in how this handler runs the course - again, may not always work for them - but you will definitely see the difference in the strategy used.

HiYa Pippi :rolleyes:

[Kavik]

I assume there will be a difference, hopefully one you can see when watching their run, otherwise what is the point of saying there is a difference?

I don't have a handling system as yet, just trying to understand what other people do and why, and why people choose to do things differently.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Kavik

[laffi]

I assume there will be a difference, hopefully one you can see when watching their run, otherwise what is the point of saying there is a difference?

I don't have a handling system as yet, just trying to understand what other people do and why, and why people choose to do things differently.

If you run courses/compete with your dog you do have a handling system :rolleyes:

Handling system is basically your decision how and where you handle your dog, how and where you execute your crosses etc.

[Vickie]

You will always get seminar junkies - plus when you are starting out I think you do need to go to lots of seminars and try different things before you get the feel of how you want to run your dog. How did we all make a decision about which handling system to adopt anyway? I tried lots of things before I became 'brainwashed' (as it was so lovingly referred to.)

Relax KC, no-one suggested you were brainwashed & no-one was being rude to you nor to GD & his system. The comment was aimed at a small group in NSW who are unwilling to accept that any method other than GD's could work.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Vickie

[Kavik]

I assume there will be a difference, hopefully one you can see when watching their run, otherwise what is the point of saying there is a difference?

I don't have a handling system as yet, just trying to understand what other people do and why, and why people choose to do things differently.

If you run courses/compete with your dog you do have a handling system

Handling system is basically your decision how and where you handle your dog, how and where you execute your crosses etc.

You see, I still often ask other people for ideas on this while walking the course :rolleyes:

I certainly could not tell you general handling rules as set out in GD system or others, as I have not developed these yet.

[laffi]

I assume there will be a difference, hopefully one you can see when watching their run, otherwise what is the point of saying there is a difference?

I don't have a handling system as yet, just trying to understand what other people do and why, and why people choose to do things differently.

If you run courses/compete with your dog you do have a handling system

Handling system is basically your decision how and where you handle your dog, how and where you execute your crosses etc.

You see, I still often ask other people for ideas on this while walking the course :rolleyes:

I certainly could not tell you general handling rules as set out in GD system or others, as I have not developed these yet.

Within the same handling system there are always few possibilities about how the run the same course. GD could do RC or FC for the same obstacle and it could still be consistent with his system. So asking the people how they run the course doesn't mean you don't have a handling system. Handling system is more the understanding you have with your dog. Seems like you are not aware of it but I am sure your dog is

[Pippi]

You will always get seminar junkies - plus when you are starting out I think you do need to go to lots of seminars and try different things before you get the feel of how you want to run your dog. How did we all make a decision about which handling system to adopt anyway? I tried lots of things before I became 'brainwashed' (as it was so lovingly referred to.)

Relax KC, no-one suggested you were brainwashed & no-one was being rude to you nor to GD & his system. The comment was aimed at a small group in NSW who are unwilling to accept that any method other than GD's could work.

Seemed to me that the comment was aimed at those of us who replied. The OP wanted clarification on some points of confusion while trying to train GD system. The reply from DC showed a lack of true understanding of the system. Its reasonable that we should try to clarify for the OP how you would handle the sequence she was referring to and why it is not inconsistent without being labelled as brainwashed. I can and do think for myself and use a system that works for me and my dog. Others can do what they like, I personally don't care - I'm happy with the system I use.

So OK, she may have been referring to others but that was not made clear. In any case clarification for the OP needed to be made by those who run and understand the system.

[Kavik]

I assume there will be a difference, hopefully one you can see when watching their run, otherwise what is the point of saying there is a difference?

I don't have a handling system as yet, just trying to understand what other people do and why, and why people choose to do things differently.

If you run courses/compete with your dog you do have a handling system

Handling system is basically your decision how and where you handle your dog, how and where you execute your crosses etc.

You see, I still often ask other people for ideas on this while walking the course :rolleyes:

I certainly could not tell you general handling rules as set out in GD system or others, as I have not developed these yet.

Within the same handling system there are always few possibilities about how the run the same course. GD could do RC or FC for the same obstacle and it could still be consistent with his system. So asking the people how they run the course doesn't mean you don't have a handling system. Handling system is more the understanding you have with your dog. Seems like you are not aware of it but I am sure your dog is

Of course I have some handling ideas in place, but I would not say it is a system atm. Have not really done much serp or threadle handling, so not sure how I will tackle those yet.

[laffi]

I assume there will be a difference, hopefully one you can see when watching their run, otherwise what is the point of saying there is a difference?

I don't have a handling system as yet, just trying to understand what other people do and why, and why people choose to do things differently.

If you run courses/compete with your dog you do have a handling system

Handling system is basically your decision how and where you handle your dog, how and where you execute your crosses etc.

You see, I still often ask other people for ideas on this while walking the course :rolleyes:

I certainly could not tell you general handling rules as set out in GD system or others, as I have not developed these yet.

Within the same handling system there are always few possibilities about how the run the same course. GD could do RC or FC for the same obstacle and it could still be consistent with his system. So asking the people how they run the course doesn't mean you don't have a handling system. Handling system is more the understanding you have with your dog. Seems like you are not aware of it but I am sure your dog is

Of course I have some handling ideas in place, but I would not say it is a system atm. Have not really done much serp or threadle handling, so not sure how I will tackle those yet.

gotcha

[LilBailey]

Rather than debating who's system is better why not give some deatils of what you use and why fo rthreadles and Serps there for making this a constructive thread.

ETA: I'm new to all this and keen to here other peoples ideas

Edited February 27, 2009 by LilBailey

[poodlefan]

I use the arm closest to my dog to handle a serpentine and RFP's to get a threadle. I have no idea whose system that is.

I use the KISS system cos anything else will either make me get lost or fall over. :rolleyes:

Edited February 27, 2009 by poodlefan

[leopuppy04]

RFP as in Rear flow pivot?! Do you stop when you do this PF or do you keep your feet moving?!

How do you get dog to go over jump 3 with your closest arm pls PF? I used to do 'helicopter arms' so I'm always one for learning new things

thanks :rolleyes:

[poodlefan]

RFP as in Rear flow pivot?! Do you stop when you do this PF or do you keep your feet moving?!

How do you get dog to go over jump 3 with your closest arm pls PF? I used to do 'helicopter arms' so I'm always one for learning new things

thanks :rolleyes:

Reverse front or flow pivot. I turn the outside shoulder in towards the dog and bring that arm in low. I face down the line of flow and [in theory] keep moving. To get the dog over jump three in the serp I open the inside shoulder and just point at it.

Clear as mud in a written description ain't it.

Edited February 27, 2009 by poodlefan

[Kavik]

Here's a video I found showing different types of serpentine handling