Toilet Training An Abused Dog :(

[Koemi]

To my disgust, I've discovered Bambi was most likely abused in her last home. When I grabbed a rolled up newspaper the other day (to throw into the recycling) I heard her yelp and BOLT out of the room, hide under my housemate's bed and could not coax her out for half an hour. When she finally came out, she shyed away from me for the rest of the day

This makes sense, as she is impossible to toilet train. Everytime you even look at her when she starts peeing, she stops and runs away. You can't tell her "no" because she freaks, you can't start praising her because it hypes her up and she forgets what she's doing.

Has anyone had to deal with anything like this? If I walk her and she sees a stranger in the street, she will freeze I think I need to take her to a behaviouralist, but the ones on here with sigs in Victoria all live pretty far away from me. I'm in Lower Templestowe. Can anyone recommend someone, if this is indeed a problem that I can't handle myself (which I think it is)? My poor baby girl... She's already been through so much...

Any advice would be fantastic. Thank you so much.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Edited for clarity: If praise is having the wrong effect (in this case, hyping), change the way it is being delivered. You can praise in a way that de-escalates.

It sounds like she has bigger issues than toilet training, but until you find someone to help you with those, I would get a lawn chair and start spending a good bit of time outside after every meal, waking and playing. Give a treat for appropriate elimination. When you praise, don't startle her by shrieking "good girl!" as you might do with a happy exuberant puppy. Keep your voice low, friendly, soft and confident.

You will have to keep a big reign on your own emotions. A nervous dog needs you to be predictable, quiet, totally consistent, confident and affectionate - you being strung out about the problems will make them worse - she has no idea you feel bad for her, and it wouldn't help if she did.

Watch your body language, move slowly and deliberately. Watch your voice, keep your cues clear and even. The past is past, what you have to do is convince her, with your behaviour, that the present is safe.

Edited February 26, 2009 by anita

[Cosmolo]

Most behaviourists will travel- templestowe is not far from us

What anita said too- but you may need some help to determine what is going to be the most effective way to train and build the dogs confidence. What kind of dog is Bambi, where did you get her from and how long have you had her?

[Koemi]

Most behaviourists will travel- templestowe is not far from us

What anita said too- but you may need some help to determine what is going to be the most effective way to train and build the dogs confidence. What kind of dog is Bambi, where did you get her from and how long have you had her?

I got her from the RSPCA at the end of November... she's a crossbreed. We're not sure what she has in her, they said Pom x, but they say that about any small fluffy dog.

In her past life, she lived in a house with a very large number of other dogs. They couldn't tell me much apart from that. edited to add: we don't even know how old she is

Edited February 26, 2009 by Koemi

[megan_]

looks like one of the dogs from the hoarding case in Vic?

I agree you need to see a behaviourist.

In the meantime, I wouldn't focus on toilet training. So you need to do a bit more cleaning, big whoops!

I believe your focus should be on gaining her trust - in a doggy, non-human way. THe human way would be lots of cuddles. If this dog has really been abused, cuddles, new people, walks etc may be too much for her at this stage.

For the last week or so I have been looking after a dog that was used as puppy farm breeding stock. We are on trial and I hope to adopt her when the trial is over. This dog won't even let you walk near her or look you in the eye. The rescuer that I got her from told me to totally ignore her for a few weeks, feed her and talk to her in a nice voice (but not directly at her). This has worked miracles - she now runs up to me, wagging her tail when I get home. She still won't come for cuddles, but the progress has been remarkable. Maybe this approach is worth talking over with a professional?

[Koemi]

looks like one of the dogs from the hoarding case in Vic?

I agree you need to see a behaviourist.

In the meantime, I wouldn't focus on toilet training. So you need to do a bit more cleaning, big whoops!

I believe your focus should be on gaining her trust - in a doggy, non-human way. THe human way would be lots of cuddles. If this dog has really been abused, cuddles, new people, walks etc may be too much for her at this stage.

For the last week or so I have been looking after a dog that was used as puppy farm breeding stock. We are on trial and I hope to adopt her when the trial is over. This dog won't even let you walk near her or look you in the eye. The rescuer that I got her from told me to totally ignore her for a few weeks, feed her and talk to her in a nice voice (but not directly at her). This has worked miracles - she now runs up to me, wagging her tail when I get home. She still won't come for cuddles, but the progress has been remarkable. Maybe this approach is worth talking over with a professional?

Yeah, she is from the hoarding case!

She is quite affectionate, but seems a little off. This is something I've noticed more and more since bringing her home, so you're probably right. She's nowhere near as bad as the dog you have mentioned (poor baby ), and is friendly enough, but it's almost as though there's a little barrier there that is stopping her from being the dog that she should be. She has a lot of attention seeking behaviour (eating her lead when I try and walk her, eating my clothes when I'm at work *cry*) and gets a bit weirded out when I try and hug her or anything.

I would feel really bad if I stopped walking her, she doesn't play with toys or really chew bones or... anything... so walking seems to be her only outlet of fun. When Tucker tries to play with her, she snaps at him Won't she go insane with boredom? I also can't take her to work because she cries the whole time, even though she can see me (I'm 99% sure this is due to our crating system and it reminds her of the pound far too much) and she also cries in the car.

It's as if she doesn't know how to act like a dog. Tucker is a lot like that too, he has interest in barely anything except me, food, walks.

[Koemi]

Oh, and in regards to the pooping inside, honestly it doesn't phase me that much, I'd rather her get used to being here and feeling safe, but I live with 3 other people. One is my ex (bought me Tucker, my first dog) and doesn't mind either, one will occasionally be like "ew, poo!" but doesn't care as long as I clean it up when I get home (none of them have limbs apparently, since they always leave it for me ) but the third gets REALLY angry about it, and I'm worried she yells at Bam when I'm not around... I mean, she wouldn't do it if she knew that it freaked the poor dog out, but I'm sure her first reaction would be to go "NO!!" at her as soon as she saw the mess, despite whether she caught her in the act or not.

[poodlefan]

The best advice I can give (other than seeking professional help) is to deal with the dog you see in front of you, not the dog you imagine her to be.

What you think is abuse may be no more than extreme lack of socialisation/timidity. Strong startle reflexes and submissive wetting don't necessarily stem from mistreatment.

Treat her as a puppy for toilet training and as a half wild animal for everything else. In addition to training, she needs "taming" as human interaction would be fairly intimidating for her. So, let her seek the contact and don't put pressure on her.

She has a lot of attention seeking behaviour (eating her lead when I try and walk her, eating my clothes when I'm at work *cry*)

I don't think this is attention seeking, just puppy like behaviour from a dog that's never been trained to behave differently. In many ways you have an adult dog with a pup's level of experience in normal family life - that is, very little.

Explain it to your housemates. Explain that the fastest way for this girl to gain confidence is for people to never be any more negative than neutral. Praise all desireable behaviour, ignore and manage the rest.

And think hard about doing some formal training with this girl (any kind) to build a relationship of trust and respect between you.

Good luck!

Edited February 26, 2009 by poodlefan

[laffi]

What a great post poodlefan! :love:

[persephone]

poodlefan- this is an excellent post

I second what you have said !

[SkySoaringMagpie]

x 3 on the Poodlefan post. Great advice.

[Edslaine]

I totally agree with poodlefan too

My Edward was exactly the same and he hadn't been abused (well I think not) but he had never been in a house; ran under the bed when he saw his reflection or another person for that matter; I couldn't have the tv on for the first week without hysterics (his not mine ); he wouldn't walk through the door if someone was standing near it; wasn't toilet trained; I also had to make up his age from his first vet visit (I was told he was 5 months - closer to 1yr the vet said); he couldn't play and for a big dog had been fed on only a cup of dry food a day, thrown into the electrified paddock he was in on his own.

I was at my wits end after a week but knew that I had to make it work as even with his problems I already loved him and anyway he would never be able to be rehomed if I felt I couldn't cope.

I went to training and that helped a lot, got help from my doggy friends and joined a group of dog owners that meet together at an off leash park - not that Edward was off lead for the first six months. I also saw Cosmolo when they came here for their seminars - actually we'd be regular clients if we lived closer to them as we really liked their training techniques.

I also went to ridiculous lengths like lying on the grass with a bone and cutting off bits of meat to tempt him - goodness knows what the neighbours thought

Sorry - to cut a long story short, four years later I have a beautiful dog I can take aywhere. We still have one or two issues - like barking at the front window but we're getting there.