Yet Another Tick Question

[morgan]

Have only ever dealt with cattle ticks, so no personal experience with paralysis ticks - how long do they need to be on before making a 10kg dog sick? The tick I pulled off last night was only a fraction over 1mm long and my vet said that that is not big enough to have made my girl sick.

As the poor girl was very slightly wobbly, ears down instead of erect, greenish froth on her mouth and a temp of 39.3 and getting flatter by the minute I thought tick and found one in her ear, but the vet said that was just a coincidence

Did the vet say that because I completely turned her symptoms around before I even found the tick and she didn't believe that I could reverse the symptoms so quickly or was it just a coincidence? The treatment I used had the bitch completely back to normal in less than 2 hours, so now I'm confused. I don't want to say that alternative methods fixed tick poisoning if it was nothing of the kind. But if they did it would be very handy info for anyone in a tick area - and only a few cents worth of treatment. I allowed 30 minutes for the stuff to work and she would have been straight to the vets if it hadn't.

[Rappie]

They need to be attached for a while, no specific time frame but usually between 1 and 3 days. They also need to be adult (so grey, rather than brown) and have been feeding - although they are often not huge, they are generally at the 3-4mm stage.

The ascending paralysis is caused by blocking of neuromuscular junctions and once this occurs, the only thing that will reverse it is time. The tick antiserum treatment is used to 'mop up' circulating toxin and stop it from binding. Recovery from tick paralysis takes days rather than hours and unless there is a concurrent infection (usually aspiration pneumonia) their attachment does not lead to pyrexia.

[morgan]

Thanks for that, the tick was dark bluish grey, but definitely less than 1.5mm.

I hadn't thought the temp was related, as the only dog I've ever seen before with one had no temp, and he couldn't even sit up until after we unknowingly knocked the tick off (the vet found the attachment site after 2 days of looking). After treating my girl I googled tick poisoning and found several references to increased temperature, so I went back and kept searching until I found it, a good half hour after her temp dropped and she was much brighter and standing and walking normally with ears erect.

The two treatments I used have anecdotally reversed symptoms in hours, never days, hence the confusion.

[Mystiqview]

I have had a tick on for probably no longer than a day and had a puppy succumb.. and have found a tick after a few days after a dog was showing signs. I have found them small and large on dogs that have succumbed.

If no signs I keep them quiet for a few days to two weeks.. and if succumbed quiet for up to 6 weeks

[morgan]

Yes, I have heard of very small ticks killing small dogs and pups, which is why I was so surprised when the vet said it was impossible.

My girl was definitely unsteady, couldn't keep her head or ears up and was shuffling instead of her usual busy trot. Her breathing was normal but she didn't make a sound so I couldn't assess whether her voice had changed. Looked like early stages of tick poisoning to me.

The Ledum I gave her is a remedy specifically used to treat puncture wounds, prevent tetanus and treat snake and tick bites, and along with another remedy I use a lot managed to have her trotting and ears up in about 40 minutes, temp down in 30 minutes, perfectly normal within 2 hours and absolutely fine today. I kept her crated last night and have kept her quiet today, but she is still perfectly ok.

Both remedies are things that can be kept in the kitchen for ages and used as soon as there is a problem, even if it is just used on the way to the vet it could help.

[Jed]

I've had a few with ticks. My vets say the ticks in my area are very nasty, and I can't argue with that. According to the vet, they need to be attached for a "couple of days" but it does depend on where they attach. One girl was paralysed in the am, but the evening before, a tick check revealed nothing. The tick was attached to the edge of her ear, and was quite tiny **runs off to get ruler to see how big 1mm is** - about 1.5mm,

I've had others of varying sizes, I don't get many.

What it Ledum, and where can I get it? I think anything is worth a go, as you rush to the vet.

Those signs sound like tick poisoning - except for the green froth, but I've had them drooling, so green froth is not out of the question.

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

Jed, re Ledum, use this link and click on Heal With Ease, not sure if they sell Ledum on its own, but worth enquiring?

http://www.workingsheepdogshow.com/

[morgan]

I think the green froth was just from eating grass which she may have done as she was feeling so ill.

I always have Ledum in the cupboard, have done so for over 20 years, as living on a farm there are always puncture wounds and snakes to worry about. I have always used it rather than getting tetanus shots for us, dogs and horses, but I have never lived in a tick area before, so this is all new to me.

I gave her the Ledum the moment I got her into the kitchen, before anything else, as the gait was unsteady and she wobbled when I touched her. She had the MMS when I discovered the high temp and was a lot better in half an hour. It was another 15 or 20 minutes before I found the tick, so I gave her another dose of Ledum as I found it and another dose before I went to bed (at about 2am as I was sitting watching her for ages)

I'd say the improvement of symptoms was about 75% before I even found the tick. I can't say that it was all due to the Ledum, as MMS works to destroy toxins in the system as well - it has been used for snakebite successfully.

Any homeopath in the yellow pages will sell you a bottle of Ledum and tell you how to use it properly, but the MMS can mostly only be bought over the net. There are some shops selling it, but most people have never heard of it.