Training Contacts

[Heidii]

Gday everyone

My agility instructor told me once I learn contacts I can go up a class!

I have a few questions concerning training this and the different methods. I was shown last night using just a plank on the ground and getting my dog to walk onto it. I was told I had to chose which method I wanted, either 2on2off or drop etc. Can anyone tell me which is the better method…or does it depend on your dog? At my agility club we are training without any verbal signals and after watching Susan garrets weave dvd last night I can see why this method is used – to get the dog to think for itself… but I am wondering if this is suitable for every type of dog? Say if I wanted drop, can I tell him drop and few times and then see if he will do it himself without me saying anything or does this defeat the purpose and will I have a dog that will never “do things for himself”….?

Any ideas/help would be great!

I need to vent as well…last night when I was teaching contacts in class a lady let her dog come right up to my dog in the middle of training…..what is WRONG with some people!! So frustrating….if they can’t understand that you shouldn’t do that to people/dogs then they shouldn’t be training!!...ah that feels better…the worst thing is the instructors allow it to happen!!!

Edited March 2, 2009 by Heidii

[laffi]

I have 2o2o with both of my dogs, although one has 2o2o down and one has 2o2o stand.

I have shaped the down in the 2o2o so I didn't use the command 'down'.

I used the nose target training to teach 2o2o stand.

I don't add/use any commands until the behavior is completely learned.

[Kavik]

Same as laffi I am teacihng a 2o2o using a nose touch to a target in a stand position. Didn't give a command until the behaviour was learned. This was retrained over the summer, haven't had a chance to use it on real equipment yet.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Kavik

[smisch]

I had to physically teach jock a 2o2o as he has always been a bit dodgey on his contacts... and he needs a cue word but we're slowly weaning him off the touch on the dogwalk.. aframe is a different story cos he has a habit of jumping off just above the contact..

I taugh jock with a plan and his leash and i would walk him to the end and make sure he got the contact properly. and I clicker worked him so as soon as he'd get the contact it was "touch" CLICK feed.. and one we had it I started working him off leash and I would give him the cue to touch and wait for him to get himself into the 2o2o position and then CLICK feed.

Jock tends to either Stand or sit with his 2o2o haven't had a chance to test it on the DW yet.. I'm not using it for the aframe as he is such a little dog and he never hits the very bottom of the AF anyway..

Another skill I was taught was using a target plate.. it works well for the slower dogs but probably not the most effective method

[leopuppy04]

I taught the contacts initially with Leo using a 2o2o method which basically was to get the dog to hit 2o2o by pure chance and 'mark' that.... wasnt' overly successful and I don't think he completely understood what we wanted. He wouldn't jump off a contact, but he wouldn't reach end behaviour either

With Kinta I taught her and later re-taught Leo using Susan Garrett's 2o2o nose touch. It made sense to me, though I didn't teach the repeated nose touch

I have found this method has worked really well and while there are gaps in our training thanks to *poor* training by me I believe my dogs have a GOOD understanding of 2o2o position. Kinta has jumped off the A a couple of times at trials, but once I went back and re-trained, everything seems to be going well, and I will fore-go a few seconds just to make sure she has hit and held her contacts as to me this is really important :D

SG all the way for me!

[JulesP]

An interesting thing I picked up in the GD seminar was that they believe the 2o2o with nose touch is good for safety. It puts the dog's weight back if they do it properly, so lightening the impact on the dog's shoulders.

We don't have much choice at my club as everyone is SG, GD crazy . I find it hilarious with Brock as he is soooo slow, I am usually waiting at the end of the dog walk or A frame for him!

Brock I taught to target to a clear disk and then used the flat board to get the 2o2o. Poppy I have been doing on stairs and I prefer this as she offers the crouch back really nicely. On the flat she tends to drop and pounce on the target with paws and nose. She 'touched' her feed bowl the other night which I thought was rather cute!!

[laffi]

Target training is used by the best world class trainers in the world to teach one of these crazy fast dogs. It's definitely NOT for slower dogs.

Shaping/teaching 2o2o with a target gives the dog a very clear criteria (2o2o) and a job to do (target).

Susan Garret (just like LP said) teaches 2o2o with target and sometimes releases the dog early so it might look like a running contact.

Running contacts are quite hard to teach as the criteria is not very clear to the dog so you need a lot of repetitions (you basically need your own equipment to teach it). The most successful method would be to use a box frame and first to teach the dog on the ground or to use paw target where the dog learns to run and touch the target with a paw.

Having said that little dogs (like JR) are great at running contacts are are less likely to jump off than larger dogs like BCs.

[JulesP]

I have kicked up a bit about doing 2o2o with Brock. I reckon it actually slows him down even more. When I was being a rebel and not doing them he was picking a little bit of speed up. In over a year of training he is yet to jump off anything without touching the colour!

[leopuppy04]

Jules - I actually think Brock is the exception to the rule and a running contact would suit him! Would give him less chance to worry 'mummy is going to ask for something soon'

If he does become super fast because he has built confidence, then we just 'add' the 2o2o in.... he's a special case methinks!

He did soooo well with his pinwheels on Monday :D

[JulesP]

"special case" pretty much sums Brock up :D

[Heidii]

I taught the contacts initially with Leo using a 2o2o method which basically was to get the dog to hit 2o2o by pure chance and 'mark' that.... wasnt' overly successful and I don't think he completely understood what we wanted. He wouldn't jump off a contact, but he wouldn't reach end behaviour either :D

With Kinta I taught her and later re-taught Leo using Susan Garrett's 2o2o nose touch. It made sense to me, though I didn't teach the repeated nose touch

I too am finding that Jordi doesnt fully understand what I really want either with this 2o2o "chance" method, This is only our 3rd day of training this but i would of expected him to be alittle better at it.

I have looked on youtube and can't acually find anyone training it from the begining, its just demos of how it should be done. Maybe I should video what I do tonight and post it up and get some comments.

Maybe i can even try the 2o2o nose touch, but that would mean i'd have to teach him that first. *sigh*

[ness]

If I had a video camera tripod I would try and video what I have been doing as I intend on starting my baby shortly .

[Heidii]

if only I could have a pup like this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9loOIbIU_c

[Kavik]

I found the nose touch really easy to teach but Kaos has a pretty good foundation with nose touches on other things already. Once the nose touch was reliable (multiple nose touches before click and treat) I then put the target plate on the ground far enough away from the plank (that I raised on a brick) that he would have to do 2o2o to do the nose touch. I am finding this a better method than the one I used before (I shaped the 2o2o with a clicker) as he is more definite of his job and position and will happily drive to the 2o2o positioin regardless of whether I am behind, beside or in front of him. He likes nose touches and finds them rewarding :D

[Heidii]

I found the nose touch really easy to teach but Kaos has a pretty good foundation with nose touches on other things already. Once the nose touch was reliable (multiple nose touches before click and treat) I then put the target plate on the ground far enough away from the plank (that I raised on a brick) that he would have to do 2o2o to do the nose touch. I am finding this a better method than the one I used before (I shaped the 2o2o with a clicker) as he is more definite of his job and position and will happily drive to the 2o2o positioin regardless of whether I am behind, beside or in front of him. He likes nose touches and finds them rewarding :D

Do you get him used to touching the target plate to begin with first and then put it in front of the board and let him do it himself or when he is on the board do you give the command of touch?...if that makes sence?

[leopuppy04]

I too am finding that Jordi doesnt fully understand what I really want either with this 2o2o "chance" method, This is only our 3rd day of training this but i would of expected him to be alittle better at it.

I have looked on youtube and can't acually find anyone training it from the begining, its just demos of how it should be done. Maybe I should video what I do tonight and post it up and get some comments.

Maybe i can even try the 2o2o nose touch, but that would mean i'd have to teach him that first. *sigh*

Heidii - do a search of my name on youtube... I have an embarassing version of me teaching contacts on there I'm pretty sure :D. I can't post the link though as I can't get onto youtube.

ETA - unlike Kavik - I have the touch plate right at the BASE of the contact as this gets them to shift their weight onto their rear as opposed to landing hard on their front

I also then graduated from stairs to a contact plank (puppy see-saw) which was raised on phone books, then placed the plank on the stairs, which gave me a good angle!

Edited February 25, 2009 by leopuppy04

[laffi]

I too am finding that Jordi doesnt fully understand what I really want either with this 2o2o "chance" method, This is only our 3rd day of training this but i would of expected him to be alittle better at it.

I have looked on youtube and can't acually find anyone training it from the begining, its just demos of how it should be done. Maybe I should video what I do tonight and post it up and get some comments.

Maybe i can even try the 2o2o nose touch, but that would mean i'd have to teach him that first. *sigh*

Heidii - do a search of my name on youtube... I have an embarassing version of me teaching contacts on there I'm pretty sure :D. I can't post the link though as I can't get onto youtube.

ETA - unlike Kavik - I have the touch plate right at the BASE of the contact as this gets them to shift their weight onto their rear as opposed to landing hard on their front

I also then graduated from stairs to a contact plank (puppy see-saw) which was raised on phone books, then placed the plank on the stairs, which gave me a good angle!

Here you are

and

[Kavik]

Do you get him used to touching the target plate to begin with first and then put it in front of the board and let him do it himself or when he is on the board do you give the command of touch?...if that makes sence?

I got him used to touching the target plate on the gound first, once that was down pat (and I could restrain him and let him go and he would go straight to the target plate and nose touch) I put it in front of the board and let him do it himself.

I didn't give a command (I am using 'Spot' - heard someone from training use that and it made sense here ) until he was doing it well - until I could restrain him on either side and let him go and he would go along the board and stop in 2o2o position with a nose touch and stay in position until released. I did a click/treat and reward at the target plate and then a verbal "Yes" release and reward forward by throwing the food.

I only have a video of my previous method - will get OH to video this one sometime.

[leopuppy04]

Thanks Laffi - now everyone can watch me and my pathetic training in sandals and socks

[Kavik]

I too am finding that Jordi doesnt fully understand what I really want either with this 2o2o "chance" method, This is only our 3rd day of training this but i would of expected him to be alittle better at it.

I have looked on youtube and can't acually find anyone training it from the begining, its just demos of how it should be done. Maybe I should video what I do tonight and post it up and get some comments.

Maybe i can even try the 2o2o nose touch, but that would mean i'd have to teach him that first. *sigh*

Heidii - do a search of my name on youtube... I have an embarassing version of me teaching contacts on there I'm pretty sure :D. I can't post the link though as I can't get onto youtube.

ETA - unlike Kavik - I have the touch plate right at the BASE of the contact as this gets them to shift their weight onto their rear as opposed to landing hard on their front

I also then graduated from stairs to a contact plank (puppy see-saw) which was raised on phone books, then placed the plank on the stairs, which gave me a good angle!

Hmm might try at the base of the contact. I was just worried that wouldn't give him enough space to put his front feet on the ground and that he would just nose touch with all four feet on the board. Maybe now he understands what I want it might not be an issue.