Red Fox Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Last night my 5 month old Ridgegack boy decided to go silly during a quick walk around the block. When I told him off and asked him to sit he tuned and faced me and barked then jumped and pulled on the lead. As we were half way around the block I decided to march him back home the way we came so that he would understand that this behaviour would not be tollerated. We were almost home and he had calmed down a bit so a thought I would walk him up to the corner and back (about 20m) before going home. When we were half way to the corner he started to go absolutely mental on the leash, Pulling and jumping then running back at me. I couldn't calm him down and tried growling at him but this made the situation worse. He turned to face me again and started jumping towards me barking and snapping. I was scared that I was going to lose hold of the leash so I just held on and stood my ground until it ended. He did take hold of my arm but didn't apply and pressure. I was so upset that when I got him home I put him straight out in the backyard, shut the door and went to have a shower. Hubby let Kei in 10 mins later and said that when he came inside he put his head down and went straight to the bathroom door. He obviously knew that he has done something wrong but I just dont understand what happened I waited for another 10 mins after I got out of the shower before I called Kei to me and had him sit and drop before patting him. We have socialised Kei since we brought him home with adults, children and other dogs, he has been taught bite inhabition, taken to puppy class and now obedience. I assert myself as the 'alpha' of the pack and have taught my son to do the same. Although Kei sometimes gets silly during play he is normally easy to settle and has NEVER been aggressive before. I dont know what to do. The whole street would have heard the commotion and now probably thinks we own an uncontrollable dog He is normally so kind and gentle but last night I was actually scared. Is this just a phase or have we got a bigger problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildatHeart Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I've got no advice sorry, but i doubted Kei knew he would have done anything wrong. Dogs don't have any deductive reasoning, so him coming back inside with his head down was prolly cause your hubby would have been acting differently, For dogs to understand that a behaviour was not acceptable, punishment is best given within 1 -1/2 secs of it occuring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 He obviously knew that he has done something wrong I doubt that. he would have perhaps had that posture due to your body language- or pain, or confusion... Is his behaviour other than that absolutely normal??? Is there any way the collar could have hurt him? Was there any other dog activity nearby? Just long shots, I know.... but without being there- it's always a guessing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Did he see something? How does he react to cats? I wonder what the trigger was.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) He obviously knew that he has done something wrong I doubt that. he would have perhaps had that posture due to your body language- or pain, or confusion... Is his behaviour other than that absolutely normal??? Is there any way the collar could have hurt him? Was there any other dog activity nearby? Just long shots, I know.... but without being there- it's always a guessing game. There were no other dogs around and as far as I can tell he was not/is not in any pain. (I checked him out as I was worried that the thrashing around on the lead might have hurt him) Unlikely that the collar would have been causing pain under normal circumstances -we are using a martingale but it only tightens to that of a normal (tight fitting) flat collar when he pulls and sits losely around his neck when walking to heel. Yes, apart from the pulling on the leash issue we have had lately his behaviour is absolutly normal. Thats why I'm at such a loss to understand it *edited for spelling Edited February 24, 2009 by SecretKei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 Did he see something?How does he react to cats? I wonder what the trigger was.. He went a bit nutty chasing leaves in the wind earlier.. could that have spooked him somehow?? We have a cat and he normally barks at them in the street but thats it. I cant work out what the trigger was either but lowering my voice and growling definately made the bahviour worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I really think you need good professional advice.. but don't believe there is anyone in the riverland? His reaction almost sounds like fearful aggression.... but that is only my interpretation Whatever it is- it would be helpful for you to get some solid help- privately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I really think you need good professional advice.. but don't believe there is anyone in the riverland?His reaction almost sounds like fearful aggression.... but that is only my interpretation Whatever it is- it would be helpful for you to get some solid help- privately. Totally agree on getting professional help. Sounds like some kind of transferred aggression.. from barrier frustration (ie being kept on leash when he wanted to be elsewhere) or from his primary reaction. All pure guess work SK - you need to talk to a professional, even if only by phone. However, as you've learned, applying any kind of aversive to an aggressive reaction is fraught with danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I won't comment on your specific experience because it is something that is very difficult to assess over the internet. I will say that my Dally as a youngster used to chuck the most amazing tantrums (always in public ) that would put a 3 year old set of triplets to shame. It generally stemmed from me saying "you will" and him saying "I WON'T!!!" *stamps foot*. I learned to see the lighter side of it and very calmly stood my ground and completely ignored him whilst he thrashed about and tried to wriggle out of his collar (thank goodness for the martingale ). As soon as he was calmly standing on a loose lead I gently praised and petted him. If I raised my voice or got cranky with him it just made him more hyper and silly. I always planned for longer walks in case he decided to chuck a wobbly - then I wasn't in a hurry to get home but only had to be more persistent than he was Just my experience with a very Bolshie young lad.....who is now an absolute delight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 I really think you need good professional advice.. but don't believe there is anyone in the riverland?His reaction almost sounds like fearful aggression.... but that is only my interpretation Whatever it is- it would be helpful for you to get some solid help- privately. Totally agree on getting professional help. Sounds like some kind of transferred aggression.. from barrier frustration (ie being kept on leash when he wanted to be elsewhere) or from his primary reaction. All pure guess work SK - you need to talk to a professional, even if only by phone. However, as you've learned, applying any kind of aversive to an aggressive reaction is fraught with danger. I really think you need good professional advice.. but don't believe there is anyone in the riverland?His reaction almost sounds like fearful aggression.... but that is only my interpretation ;) Whatever it is- it would be helpful for you to get some solid help- privately. Totally agree on getting professional help. Sounds like some kind of transferred aggression.. from barrier frustration (ie being kept on leash when he wanted to be elsewhere) or from his primary reaction. All pure guess work SK - you need to talk to a professional, even if only by phone. However, as you've learned, applying any kind of aversive to an aggressive reaction is fraught with danger. I will definately speak to someone a professional about this and will be keeping a good eye on him as the behaviour was just so out of character. I won't comment on your specific experience because it is something that is very difficult to assess over the internet.I will say that my Dally as a youngster used to chuck the most amazing tantrums (always in public ) that would put a 3 year old set of triplets to shame. It generally stemmed from me saying "you will" and him saying "I WON'T!!!" *stamps foot*. I learned to see the lighter side of it and very calmly stood my ground and completely ignored him whilst he thrashed about and tried to wriggle out of his collar (thank goodness for the martingale ). As soon as he was calmly standing on a loose lead I gently praised and petted him. If I raised my voice or got cranky with him it just made him more hyper and silly. I always planned for longer walks in case he decided to chuck a wobbly - then I wasn't in a hurry to get home but only had to be more persistent than he was Just my experience with a very Bolshie young lad.....who is now an absolute delight Yes, thats exactly how I would describe it -A BIG FAT TANTRUM!- Ignoring him was what got him across the road and back home as the growling had the complete opposite effect of what I wanted. Issue for me is that I can hold on to that leash now during a tantrum now at 26kg but I couldn't restrain a 40kg dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I will say that my Dally as a youngster used to chuck the most amazing tantrums (always in public ) that would put a 3 year old set of triplets to shame. One of my Borzoi used to chuck 'tanties' as a pup too. No biting, but thrashing about at the end of the lead and screaming weren't unusual if she didn't get her way. She did have a history when she came to me that explained her rather spoilt nature and she grew into a very easy dog to live with, very obedient and well behaved - but she did have to learn that tantrums weren't going to work. I didn't use corrections really, I tend not to with youngsters, just a lot of 'not rewarding' and waiting it out with a disdainful expression on my face. Takes a thick skin just to stand there in public till an extinction burst fades - but I used to tell myself she wasn't embarrassing me, just herself As soon as she was calm she got some verbal prasie and we'd continue on our way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 K9: your pup probably is in the late stages of the Rank & Shaping period, this is followed by the Selective deafness or independence period. You will see these periods in my Puppy Development Calendar at the top of the Puppy section or my website here. This is not abnormal behaviour but it is a indicator that you need to step up your leadership with this pup now. My Triangle of temptation program is also a sticky here, get that running in your pack as a foundation & see what impact it has. If your still having these issues after two weeks shoot me an email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R00 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 My Triangle of temptation program is also a sticky here, get that running in your pack as a foundation & see what impact it has. In my opinion this is a great program to use. If you don't use it you are doing a disservice to yourself and your dog I used it with only one of my dogs due to outside reasons, and the one I used it on displayed the the most respect and he was very head strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rish Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 We had to sell our ROTTI pup,she went all aggro on us,looked mean when we went off at our son ! When she bit 1 time to many (hard) she was out of here (kids and all) We took VETs advice on her( 1 was to drug her-we didnt do that) desex her ect0ring vet) ,but 1 thing we have since learnt,she slept on our bed,bringing her UP to our leval,Leigh now sleep on the floor. I hope ur problem is solved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 We had to sell our ROTTI pup,she went all aggro on us,looked mean when we went off at our son !When she bit 1 time to many (hard) she was out of here (kids and all) We took VETs advice on her( 1 was to drug her-we didnt do that) desex her ect0ring vet) ,but 1 thing we have since learnt,she slept on our bed,bringing her UP to our leval,Leigh now sleep on the floor. I hope ur problem is solved You gave her away because she was a puppy that bit you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirra_Bomber_Zeus Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) We took VETs advice on her( 1 was to drug her-we didnt do that) desex her ect0ring vet) Just for future reference, you may have been better off taking a qualified dog trainer's advice on this issue rather than a vet's advice. It sounds like a training issue, not a medical issue. edited to add: sorry to the OP, didnt mean to hijack the thread or anything . I too had issues with tantrums from my 6 year old dog when she was a pup - sounds like you have already had some great advice - good luck with it Edited February 24, 2009 by Kirra_Bomber_Zeus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 K9: your pup probably is in the late stages of the Rank & Shaping period, this is followed by the Selective deafness or independence period. You will see these periods in my Puppy Development Calendar at the top of the Puppy section or my website here. This is not abnormal behaviour but it is a indicator that you need to step up your leadership with this pup now. My Triangle of temptation program is also a sticky here, get that running in your pack as a foundation & see what impact it has. If your still having these issues after two weeks shoot me an email. Thanks for the info K9. I checked out the website and am seriously considering some distance training. I will try and use the triangle of temptation program too, I do a similar thing now by having Kei sit and wait for his food, he is not allowed to have it until he looks at me instead of the bowl. However I will change to your technique instead and see what the impact is. Just reading up on your leashes now too. I think this could be a good investment for us as I would not want for Kei to break his leash during a tantrum. I will PM you soon for some info on the distance program Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Just reading up on your leashes now too. I think this could be a good investment for us as I would not want for Kei to break his leash during a tantrum. I have three of K9's leather leashes and they are the best!! I can't use anything else now, nothing is as nice and soft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 We took VETs advice on her( 1 was to drug her-we didnt do that) desex her ect0ring vet) Just for future reference, you may have been better off taking a qualified dog trainer's advice on this issue rather than a vet's advice. It sounds like a training issue, not a medical issue. edited to add: sorry to the OP, didnt mean to hijack the thread or anything . I too had issues with tantrums from my 6 year old dog when she was a pup - sounds like you have already had some great advice - good luck with it No worries. It's good to hear that I'm not the only one who's ever had issue with these tantrums We will work through it and get there eventually! And I have to add -completely off topic- but Zeus in your sig. is absolutely ADORABLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 Just reading up on your leashes now too. I think this could be a good investment for us as I would not want for Kei to break his leash during a tantrum. I have three of K9's leather leashes and they are the best!! I can't use anything else now, nothing is as nice and soft Thanks Huski, you have me convinced.. now I just have to talk hubby into letting me buy *another* thing for the dog Did you get the standard or the premium?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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