Building Play Drive

[Heidii]

Hi everyone, I have a 19 month old rough collie who Im starting out doing agility with. As a pup I taught him play drive but now that he is older I dont think I taught him quite as good as I had hoped for. He likes to play with me with his tug toy etc but quickly "gets over it". One minute he will go silly wanting his tug toy but after a bit of training when I get it out to play again he will just ignore it! My partners German Shepherd has ALOT of play drive and would play 24/7 if you let him. I'm wondering if I would be able to "re-train" his play drive to the way I want it?....as in would play all day. Sometimes I wonder if it's his breed....? All the dogs at my agility club are mostly Aussie shepherds with the play drive I am after.

Maybe I am asking too much of him and just have to keep his lessions short?

I guess what im asking is .... Is there anyway I can "re-train" him to love his toy 24/7? Or is it too late? Or is it his breed?

To save some time I have done things such as:

*Tugging and whenever he tugs I tell him yes and let him have the toy

*Getting him to "find it" to make it fun... i usually hide it behind me

*Taking the toy out only for 1 minute ... then I take it away when he ready wants it.

*I play with the toy with my partner so he see's that we are having heaps of fun with it....then we give it to him when he tries hard to get it off us.

*I never leave the toy in the backyard for him to play by himself....the toy is strickly with me only. No other toys/tugs are left in the backyard.

[huski]

I think you are thinking of more prey drive than play drive, if you are wanting him to engage with a tug?

[Luke W]

I'm building tug drive in Barkly and he's slowly becoming more enthusiastic.

I'm using the "Premack principle" and Susan Garrett's method for tranferring reward value.

Sounds complicated?

Nope.

Does your dog have something that's a higher value reward than tug? Food for example?

Only attempt to play tug when you are pretty sure your dog will want to.

Play in short bursts in the beginning - 1 minute is too long. Try starting with 5 seconds.

Try teasing him....moving the tug in an enticing manner and not letting him get at it for a few seconds, then let hium grab it and tug with him.

As soon as he tugs for 5 seconds, give the 'out'/'leave it' command and immediately give him the higher value reward.

Over time, the value of the higher value reward will transfer down to tug.

Oh and don't let him have the toy - he should think that the toy is no fun without you. You should always have hold of the toy - at least for the moment.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Luke W

[Heidii]

I think you are thinking of more prey drive than play drive, if you are wanting him to engage with a tug?

I thought they would have been pretty much the same thing? :rolleyes: I want him to play with me, and use play as a reward for training.

[leopuppy04]

Hey Heidii - you sure can improve his play drive :rolleyes:

Luke has already made some great suggestions but some other things to try:

*Keep sessions REALLY short and at times when he is most excited.... ALWAYS quit when he wants more - ie: jumping on you etc

*Let him win often - dogs that aren't overly enthused about tugging are usually the ones with the mentality 'if you want it that bad, you can have it'.... so if they tug back on your hand - don't pull harder (it's demotivating) let them win it!!!!

*Let them get absolutely crazy for it and don't be too particular about what you want

*Leslie McDevitt in Control Unleashed has some great games... such as 'give me a break' the idea is that you will play with the dog for 10 seconds, shorter if your dogs attention can't be kept that long. Then you will abruptly stop, sit down and disengage from the dog. As soon as the dog offers behaviours towards you (looks at you, tries to take the toy etc) then you start playing again. It makes the playing really rewarding for the dog.... but I may not have explained it right (I get it, but I can't explain things well)

*Vary your toys - you'll be surprised, but producing a different toy every 10 seconds really increases drive... the dogs end up with the idea "OMG what ELSE do you have in there?!?!?!"

*As others have said - pairing tugging with a higher value item (eg: dinner) will help, but not always.... with mine, if I presented food to begin with, focus came off the toy and back to staring holes into me for the food again.

Let me keep thinking... I have HEAPS of ideas.

[ozjen]

Hi everyone, I have a 19 month old rough collie who Im starting out doing agility with. As a pup I taught him play drive but now that he is older I dont think I taught him quite as good as I had hoped for. He likes to play with me with his tug toy etc but quickly "gets over it". One minute he will go silly wanting his tug toy but after a bit of training when I get it out to play again he will just ignore it! My partners German Shepherd has ALOT of play drive and would play 24/7 if you let him. I'm wondering if I would be able to "re-train" his play drive to the way I want it?....as in would play all day. Sometimes I wonder if it's his breed....? All the dogs at my agility club are mostly Aussie shepherds with the play drive I am after.

Maybe I am asking too much of him and just have to keep his lessions short?

I guess what im asking is .... Is there anyway I can "re-train" him to love his toy 24/7? Or is it too late? Or is it his breed?

To save some time I have done things such as:

*Tugging and whenever he tugs I tell him yes and let him have the toy

*Getting him to "find it" to make it fun... i usually hide it behind me

*Taking the toy out only for 1 minute ... then I take it away when he ready wants it.

*I play with the toy with my partner so he see's that we are having heaps of fun with it....then we give it to him when he tries hard to get it off us.

*I never leave the toy in the backyard for him to play by himself....the toy is strickly with me only. No other toys/tugs are left in the backyard.

One of our trainers suggested to someone having trouble getting their dog motivaited to play tug as a reward, to start by using a chicken wing in a sock . Perhaps this might work to start with and then gradually eliminaite the chicken wing and the sock. Perhaps, then rub some chicken on the tug toy or tuglead to begin with. Your so lucky to have so many Aussies in your class they love having fun. Yep, I'm an Aussie mum.

[Heidii]

Thanks guys for all of your advice. I have ordered one of those tug it things recommended by Susan garratt so will see how that will go. I think it's similar to what ozjen has mentioned.

I have made alittle progress just by playing with him and as soon as he tugs even the tinest amount I let him have it and praise him heaps, this is starting to work so i will see how that goes aswell! Thanks Leopuppy!

[Seita]

Is he food motivated? You don't have to tug if your dog isn't really that into it? Use whatever drive your dog finds most rewarding... play, food or pack (pats/cuddles etc).

[poodlefan]

What games does your dog enjoy playing?

What motivates him?

One of my dogs would no more fly to the moon than play tug with me - she's too submissive. But she'll do anything for food.

Try a range of games, balls, food tubes etc. Then watch your dog to see what he enjoys most. It's not a reward if your dog doesn't find it really rewarding!

Edited February 26, 2009 by poodlefan