Dog Has Selective Hearing, Also Will Only Come When I Have Treats!

[lovemesideways]

*applauds K9 Force*

Excellent.

:D

[Cosmolo]

There's no reason to jump on Midol for suggesting an e collar as a possibility, same as he wouldn't jump on someone for suggesting a long line. I do use e collars, some of my clients are trained to use e collars (and they most certainly do NOT just keep pressing buttons when they should not be) and can do things with their dogs they never thought possible- 2 recent dogs are much more confident and relaxed than they ever were before the use of an e collar so i guess i will continue to 'inflict' these things on dogs while it continues to improve the dogs lives and welfare.

The the OP- definitely keep the dog on a long line and perhaps start attending a good training club or have a trainer come to assist you. They can let you know what options would best suit you

Edited February 23, 2009 by Cosmolo

[persephone]

Once again- many interesting posts- and some sensible suggestions for the OP.

(bravo, K9force)

I am a lazy dog owner.

I do NOT have a good recall on a couple of my dogs when they prefer hunting to walking with me.

They only go off lead when I know there is nothing moving within an area!I am happy with doing that :D

I use a long (6mtr) cable 'dog tie out' available from some $2 shops... They last for ages- and allow the dogs plenty of room.

AS said- Keep him on lead - and get a good professional to help you implement a plan to improve the recall.

[Kavik]

It was more the brevity of Midol's post I had an issue with. All he did was say ecollar, didn't say to get help how to use it or anything, or how an ecollar might be handy, or even not to let the dog off lead until they have a reliable recall (with any method including ecollar). He basically said it was the only option.

It is all well and good to post things that have been useful for you, and I'm sure ecollars are great for recalls, but there are other things the OP can implement straight away both for recalls and to prevent/stop the rushing and barking problem on walks.

ETA: I would have had the same problem if someone had problems with their dog pulling and someone simply said "prong collar" or 'halti" without explaining why/how and that you need to know how to use the tools, and what methods you could use.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Kavik

[Steve K9Pro]

K: It was more the brevity of Midol's post I had an issue with. All he did was say ecollar, didn't say to get help how to use it or anything, or how an ecollar might be handy, or even not to let the dog off lead until they have a reliable recall (with any method including ecollar). He basically said it was the only option.

K9: I didn't perceive it that he put forward there was no other option. I read that in his opinion & he actually even included it was his opinion, the e collar was the best tool.

K: It is all well and good to post things that have been useful for you, and I'm sure ecollars are great for recalls, but there are other things the OP can implement straight away both for recalls and to prevent/stop the rushing and barking problem on walks.

K9: sure there is, plenty of people posted suggestions, including me but he still is entitled to write a post how he feels best will help the OP & as I mentioned, I didnt see where he said there was no other way, just his preferred way.

K: ETA: I would have had the same problem if someone had problems with their dog pulling and someone simply said "prong collar" or 'halti" without explaining why/how and that you need to know how to use the tools, and what methods you could use.

K9: possibly, but people have suggested a long line without explaining what to do with it?

JM Orig post :

e-collar.

I believe they are the best training tool. Way better than clickers, anything. JMO though. For some things I combine the clicker in with my e-collar work, but not for recalls.

[Erny]

I noticed that you picked a few quotes from my whole post that suited your favoritism for e collars. ...

No .... none of the quotes I posted from yours had anything or much to do with the e-collar. I guess what it did favour though is to show that comments you made were incorrect or in cases at best, somewhat (as K9 put it) "soap-boxish" with seemingly irrelevance to the OP's problem.

As for commenting on the rest of your post, I think K9 has done that pretty well.

In response to Midol merely saying to the OP that in his experience the e-collar works the best for recalls (especially for dogs that have had the opportunity to learn they don't always have to recall) you asked him was he "taking the piss" and suggested he get a gold fish.

None of that was helpful to the OP or to anyone else reading. It was not only irrelevant, it was rude, offensive and arrogant IMO and to me only reveals a lack of your understanding of the e-collar and of the many successes good work with the e-collar has achieved. If you only know of 2 people who use the e-collar properly, then I can only think you travel in small circles.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Erny

[Kavik]

K: It was more the brevity of Midol's post I had an issue with. All he did was say ecollar, didn't say to get help how to use it or anything, or how an ecollar might be handy, or even not to let the dog off lead until they have a reliable recall (with any method including ecollar). He basically said it was the only option.

K9: I didn't perceive it that he put forward there was no other option. I read that in his opinion & he actually even included it was his opinion, the e collar was the best tool.

K: It is all well and good to post things that have been useful for you, and I'm sure ecollars are great for recalls, but there are other things the OP can implement straight away both for recalls and to prevent/stop the rushing and barking problem on walks.

K9: sure there is, plenty of people posted suggestions, including me but he still is entitled to write a post how he feels best will help the OP & as I mentioned, I didnt see where he said there was no other way, just his preferred way.

K: ETA: I would have had the same problem if someone had problems with their dog pulling and someone simply said "prong collar" or 'halti" without explaining why/how and that you need to know how to use the tools, and what methods you could use.

K9: possibly, but people have suggested a long line without explaining what to do with it?

JM Orig post :

e-collar.

I believe they are the best training tool. Way better than clickers, anything. JMO though. For some things I combine the clicker in with my e-collar work, but not for recalls.

If you read my first post I did explain how to do a recall with long line, though I guess it could have been more comprehensive It certainly gave more information than "use a long line" in response to Midol's "use an ecollar".

[Steve K9Pro]

K: If you read my first post I did explain how to do a recall with long line, though I guess it could have been more comprehensive It certainly gave more information than "use a long line" in response to Midol's "use an ecollar".

K9: I just took another look, I don't see it as a training guide though (your post that is), but then again I don't think training via a forum would be a wise idea, too many little details that can be missed that will effect the out come.

If someone was to read a post, follow those steps & not get results, it can make them feel like its hopeless & give up.

[poodlefan]

Reality check:

Your average pet dog owner is not going to spend hundreds of dollars on an e-collar AND the training required to use it effectively.

Lack of recall is a bread and butter dog trainer/training club training issue. Either get a dog trainer to come and visit you or join a decent dog training club.

In the meantime, DO NOT LET YOUR DOG OFFLEAD.

As K9Force points out, every time you call your dog and he doesn't come, you reinforce his behaviour.

[persephone]

In the meantime, DO NOT LET YOUR DOG OFFLEAD.

As K9Force points out, every time you call your dog and he doesn't come, you reinforce his behaviour.

*nods*

[Kavik]

K: If you read my first post I did explain how to do a recall with long line, though I guess it could have been more comprehensive It certainly gave more information than "use a long line" in response to Midol's "use an ecollar".

K9: I just took another look, I don't see it as a training guide though (your post that is), but then again I don't think training via a forum would be a wise idea, too many little details that can be missed that will effect the out come.

If someone was to read a post, follow those steps & not get results, it can make them feel like its hopeless & give up.

It wasn't meant to be a training guide, but some ideas and hints on the recall

Midol's post said nothing other than a tool. A tool on its own does not a recall make He didn't even say to consult a trainer to show you how to use one.

A training club is a good idea and as poodlefan said they deal with recall issues all the time

While I have no issues with people using an ecollar, I think that suggesting one in the first post of the thread with no explanation is not necessary. From their post count they have not been here long, and may not know about ecollars or their history on this board. They may be rather scared and shocked that this was suggested or if they talk to someone at a club and say this was suggested they may get some interesting feedback! Maybe we could stop talking about them in this thread since the OP has stated earlier they are not interested and I'm sure they did not intend for their thread to be a pro/con ecollar thread.

[Steve K9Pro]

K: Midol's post said nothing other than a tool. A tool on its own does not a recall make He didn't even say to consult a trainer to show you how to use one.

K9: True perhaps he had intentions of adding more info later? who knows.

K: A training club is a good idea and as poodlefan said they deal with recall issues all the time

K9: Horses for courses, a training club is of little use & possibly more harm if the dog is overly distracted by other dogs.

k: While I have no issues with people using an ecollar, I think that suggesting one in the first post of the thread with no explanation is not necessary.

K9: Perhaps, but I dont think it is necessary for anyone even to reply, but they do, that's what makes a (good) forum. Perhaps if the OP had shown interest he would have continued the same line of thought.

K: From their post count they have not been here long, and may not know about ecollars or their history on this board. They may be rather scared and shocked that this was suggested or if they talk to someone at a club and say this was suggested they may get some interesting feedback!

K9: and... they may not... There is a lot of speculation here...

K: Maybe we could stop talking about them in this thread since the OP has stated earlier they are not interested and I'm sure they did not intend for their thread to be a pro/con ecollar thread.

K9: Maybe, but all threads go in different directions, some times were happy with the direction, other times were not. One thing for sure is, information is exchanged & recorded for future learning, that isnt a bad thing.

[Kavik]

Yes but it is good to be aware of what might happen. People read stuff on here and then probably talk to people about it (if it is interesting) - and the suggestion of an ecollar is likely to bring on some lively opinions! ETA: imagine how they would feel if they say "It was suggested I use an ecollar to train a recall" and people start telling them they are illegal, it is cruel, you want to shock your dog?! Wouldn't it be a good idea to tell them alternatives and to say a bit about the legalities etc?

I probably wouldn't have pushed the point so much if he had simply added something like " I have found the ecollar to be a useful tool in teaching the recall/the ecollar is a useful tool in teaching the recall. If you say where you are located we can suggest a trainer who is knowledgeable in their use to instruct you or K9 Force on this forum runs distance learning packages".

Edited February 24, 2009 by Kavik

[Steve K9Pro]

K: Yes but it is good to be aware of what might happen. People read stuff on here and then probably talk to people about it (if it is interesting) - and the suggestion of an ecollar is likely to bring on some lively opinions! ETA: imagine how they would feel if they bring say "It was suggested I use an ecollar to train a recall" and people start telling them they are illegal, it is cruel, you want to shock your dog?! Wouldn't it be a good idea to tell them alternatives and to say a bit about the legalities etc?

K9: Of course I agree with you on this one, in fact when I brought discussion of e collars & prongs to DOL, yep it was me, every mention of them brought an uproar, but with it came education & now there are many threads with only the odd negative comment.

Some peoples posting styles could use some work to get the message across clear I do agree, but in the end its a forum I guess & I guess you can please everyone.

[Erny]

Kavik and PDT .... it is true that this thread was not intended by the OP to be a pro/anti e-collar discussion. The only thing that really brought it to be that were the "anti" comments (especially by PDT) which by the emotive words against the tool itself as well as disparaging to Midol painted the e-collar to "anyone reading" a bad picture. If those comments were written differently, then for the sake of clarifying to "anyone reading" that it was not across the board agreed upon that the e-collar is a bad or ineffective tool was felt necessary. There is enough misconception/misunderstanding of the e-collar, without it being spread further by disparaging remarks that might allude to that conclusion by the reader.

There are trainers who would be considered predominantly "positive" but who also recognise the value of the good use of an e-collar.

In all the years of training I've not come across anyone who has purchased an e-collar and trained with it without some tuition. Not saying there aren't any, only that I've not seen or heard. And I agree, there are many who aren't up for the expense of the e-collar and training. That shouldn't in itself preclude the mention of the e-collar. At least then people know it to be a very viable option. It is then up to them should they wish to follow it through.

And in all the many other threads that have mentioned training tools .... not everyone who mentions a martingale; head collar; check chain; harness; or other style of management/training tool follows on with an explanation on how to use them and whilst some will follow up with a post on the "how to's", the first person to mention them is generally not shot down for the fact they mentioned it without the training explanation to follow.

If neither are against the good use of an e-collar, all that needed to be mentioned was a follow up post expressing your opinion on them being used under instruction of a trainer but that other methods to solidify basic training of the recall and a 'relationship' check might assist in sending the OP in the right direction, or a direction that suits her.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Erny

[Kavik]

And in all the many other threads that have mentioned training tools .... not everyone who mentions a martingale; head collar; check chain; harness; or other style of management/training tool follows on with an explanation on how to use them and whilst some will follow up with a post on the "how to's", the first person to mention them is generally not shot down for the fact they mentioned it without the training explanation to follow.

If neither are against the good use of an e-collar, all that needed to be mentioned was a follow up post expressing your opinion on them being used under instruction of a trainer but that other methods to solidify basic training of the recall and a 'relationship' check might assist in sending the OP in the right direction, or a direction that suits her.

True that not everyone mentions how to use the other tools, however you can get help with how to use these other tools at a club or through a trainer, while ecollars are not allowed to be used by ANKC affiliated clubs (nor are prongs) and I know only very few private trainers who use them. None of these tools use -R the way an ecollar does and none uses electricity or needs to find the working level.

I did mention that I thought they are fine if used under instruction.

I guess I am just getting frustrated by Midol always saying ecollars as first port of call for most problems regardless of what else the person has tried/done with the dog and regardless of the expertise of the handler/owner.

[Erny]

I guess I am just getting frustrated by Midol always saying ecollars as first port of call for most problems regardless of what else the person has tried/done with the dog and regardless of the expertise of the handler/owner.

.... I think he's excited and very pleased with the success he's been having by training with its use.

Note to Midol .... Midol, please follow up such of your posts with some explanation to show that the e-collar is best used under the supervision of a trainer (who understands them). Kavik is right in one sense, and that is that there are so many clubs and groups who 'deny' them and as such won't extend themselves to learn of them. Hence many wouldn't be able to explain how to use them. So whilst your recommendation has merit, someone picking up on that and going elsewhere for instruction might be met with surprising resistance and mis-information.

Kavik .... I could see your frustration - you explained it. At least you weren't offensive with it.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Erny

[Kavik]

And I enjoy reading about Midol's success

I try not to be offensive as that never helps anyone.

[Erny]

Kavik ..... I often enjoy your posts .

[Erny]

Now, back to Reality (no pun intended ).

How's it been going for you? It's only been a short time so perhaps you haven't had a chance to put into place a training regime yet. But if you have, please come back to let us know what you're doing and how it is progressing .