Another Toilet Training Question.

[Tony & Emma]

Hi all,

We're after a bit of advice regarding toilet raining if anyone can help?

Some background info:-

We have a 9 week old male Great Dane pup called Huckleberry, he's great! We crate trained him from the outset and he took to it really well. He whimpered occasionally the first couple of nights, but loves his crate now he's into a routine. He sleeps in there all night, with one 'pit-stop' in the middle of the night when I take him out to pee. We have had no accidents in the crate for a week, (apart from the one night I slept through my 2:30 alarm and left the poor sausage all night).

We work full time, so he is alone for 7 to 8 hours a day, this doesn't seem to bother him and from checking the webcam and watching him on weekends, he just seeps 95% of that time anyway.

He has a large 'pen', which is basically half of the family room. His crate is in the corner of the pen. On a night he is shut in his crate, if we are out or at work his crate is open, but his pen is closed and when we are home his pen door is open so he has the whole family room with us.

In the far corner of his pen, diagonally opposite his crate, is a large plastic tray which we put paper over for toileting in the day whilst we are at work.

So, here's the 'problem'.

Night time is fine, I take him out for toilets before I go to bed then shut him in his crate. I set my alarm for 2:30am each morning and come down to take him out again - which he does. He is then shut in back in his crate and sleeps until around 5:45, then I get up - take him for a toilet outside again and let him out in his pen where we play before work. Emma comes down, gives him brekkie and spends another hour or so playing - he then crashes asleep and Em heads off to work.

When we are home, every 30 to 60 minutes we take him out to pee, after every meal or drink and after play sessions we take him out to pee. There is no problem there.

During the day, when we are at work, we put the paper lined tray down in his pen. He has got this part down no problem, he always wees and poos on his tray when we are at work, and man can he pee - it's flooded when I ge home.

Now here's the thing. Because he has access to the tray most of each day, he has not yet learned to tell us when he needs to toilet as he assumes it's ok to pee inside. When we come home, if we leave the tray in his pen and don't catch him in time to take him out he will go on the tray. If we remove the tray and don't catch him in time to take him out, he'll pee on the carpet.

I know it's not the best scenario trying to train him two toilet areas and no one being in through the week to keep his toilet training up proper, but we're wondering what we might be able to do to get him to tell us when he needs to go. He kind of does, but he's back to front. If we don't catch the signs in time, he'll start go on the tray - then when we stop him he'll go to the back door as he knows we normally take him out to pee once we catch him.

I'm thinking that whilst we are working full time, it may be an impossible task to try and train him properly until he can hold his bladder all day?

The only thing I can think of at the moment is to move his pen around so we can put his tray in front of the back door. Then, when we come home, instead of putting his tray away we pop it outside where he can see it through the glass and we let him use that to toilet on each time instead of taking him down the garden? At least that way, he should realise that his tray is outside and may go to the door to tell us he wants out?

Any other suggestions would be gratefully received.

(I hope that lot makes sense.)

Cheers.

[Kelpie_Pup]

Oooh can we see a pic?? Love little pups!

Firstly, he seems to have caught on pretty quick to the toileting outside thing. And GOOD ON YOU for crating him early on.. I'm a big fan, can you tell!?

You are right, it is confusing for him to be taught two different things.

The only reason he continues to return to the tray is because it is close by (when he is locked in he has no choice) and it has a VERY strong scent or urine-obviosuly.

Is it necessary to keep him inside when you're not at home? Is there an outside area you could put the pen that has some shade as well? He's also going to be a pretty big dog, how long will he be spending his days inside?

Basically, for 6 months, we never left Halle unattended inside. The only time she was inside, without us in the same room, was when she was shut in her crate at night. If we could not be in the same room with her, she was outside. Admittedly, we spent 3 weeks at home with her almost full time before we both returned to work (we were on holidays at the time) so she was used to being outside and using it as her toilet area.

We didn'd mind that she spent a fair bit of time unsupervised outside, because she always went to the same corner to toilet, and really, what damage was she going to do!

She was, however, as I said, NEVER unattended inside. I think we only actually started leaving her alone in the room when she was about 12 months. It was really a mind over matter thing for me- I knew she was TT'd, but didn't want to tempt fate.

[Pug Hugger]

Oh so glad you got a great dane in the end - I hope that if I nosey into the GD thread I will see some pics! NOthing to add to toilet training though sorry

[Tony & Emma]

Thanks for the replies.

I don't like the idea of leaving him home alone outside - too many idiots around that could grab him, or harm him. We're in a decent area, so I doubt anything would happen, and the garden is secure, but I just wouldn't feel settled. Plus, as sleeps most of the day anyway, so it's nice to think he is home & cozy. He's not really one for the outside at the moment - he'd rather be indoors.

We intend to always leave him indoors to be honest. We are building a nice big house, so when he's grown he will have stacks of room in the new place that he can be left alone in. The plan is hopefully to eventually have him well enough trained to be trusted with run of the house in the day.

Pics & vids here:-

www.mytb.org/tony---emma

Cheers.

[Kelpie_Pup]

I don't like the idea of leaving him home alone outside - too many idiots around that could grab him, or harm him. We're in a decent area, so I doubt anything would happen, and the garden is secure, but I just wouldn't feel settled. Plus, as sleeps most of the day anyway, so it's nice to think he is home & cozy. He's not really one for the outside at the moment - he'd rather be indoors.

He isn't a baby human- home and cozy isn't reeeeally what he needs, particularly as he grows. He will not be sleeping most of the day for a long time either.. by 4-5 months he will be alot more active, and bigger.

IMO, as long as he is tought that it is ok to toilet inside, it is going to take him a long time to distinguish the difference between where inside is ok to pee and where inside is not.

Teaching to toilet inside at all is going to make things difficult. It's a shame he can't spend time outside.

We live in an area where there are a lot of working properties, and TBH, its not really what I would call a secure neighbourhood. We have a purebred Kelpie who would be worth alot to many people out here.

But there is NO way I would keep her locked inside for her most of her day just because I was concerned about someone pinching her-which could be done easily through our side gate. She is a very active dog and needs to be outside with lots of space and things to explore.

As it turns out, Halle only ever accidentally peed inside once when I hadn't taken her outside for a while and I left her in the room on her own for too long.

Are you able to construct a fully enclosed pen outside? One that can be locked if you're concerned about security?

[Tony & Emma]

I don't like the idea of leaving him home alone outside - too many idiots around that could grab him, or harm him. We're in a decent area, so I doubt anything would happen, and the garden is secure, but I just wouldn't feel settled. Plus, as sleeps most of the day anyway, so it's nice to think he is home & cozy. He's not really one for the outside at the moment - he'd rather be indoors.

He isn't a baby human- home and cozy isn't reeeeally what he needs, particularly as he grows. He will not be sleeping most of the day for a long time either.. by 4-5 months he will be alot more active, and bigger.

IMO, as long as he is tought that it is ok to toilet inside, it is going to take him a long time to distinguish the difference between where inside is ok to pee and where inside is not.

Teaching to toilet inside at all is going to make things difficult. It's a shame he can't spend time outside.

We live in an area where there are a lot of working properties, and TBH, its not really what I would call a secure neighbourhood. We have a purebred Kelpie who would be worth alot to many people out here.

But there is NO way I would keep her locked inside for her most of her day just because I was concerned about someone pinching her-which could be done easily through our side gate. She is a very active dog and needs to be outside with lots of space and things to explore.

As it turns out, Halle only ever accidentally peed inside once when I hadn't taken her outside for a while and I left her in the room on her own for too long.

Are you able to construct a fully enclosed pen outside? One that can be locked if you're concerned about security?

From what I have learned about Danes though, is that they don't like to be outside on their own all day and they'd rather be in their 'home' chilling out, lounging around and sleeping (regardless of age) I agree he's not a baby, and he certainly isn't treat like one.

He gets outside time with me and a football after work, but as soon as he tires (about 20 mins) he wanders back in and finds his favourite comfy spots and zonks for the next few hours.

[SwaY]

From what I have learned about Danes though, is that they don't like to be outside on their own all day and they'd rather be in their 'home' chilling out, lounging around and sleeping (regardless of age)

Perfect Dane routine

[BigBen]

Ben wasn't reliable untill 5 months old... I think it was because I left the door open to the outside, so he never learned the difference between inside and outside... When it started to get warm, I closed the door to put on the aircon, and he got it within a couple of days..

[Danois]

Is it necessary to keep him inside when you're not at home? Is there an outside area you could put the pen that has some shade as well? He's also going to be a pretty big dog, how long will he be spending his days inside?

Danes are not necessarily outside dogs and can also be quite susceptible to temperature.

T&E - working all day does not preclude toilet training - it can be done. What you need to do is move the tray closer and closer to the door and then outside (over a week or 2) - if it is done gradually then he should just follow the tray and go there.

Otherwise - it is still the vigilance when you are home in watching him and taking him out every 30 mins or so.

[Tony & Emma]

Thanks for the replies.

Really, he is very good - and we're not bothered about having to use the tray longer due to not being able to be with him all day.

We'll have a change round of his pen in the next week or so, as I nned to modify the main gate to it (he's getting so big he'll soon be over it). When we swap it aournd, we can start to move his tray toward the door. That's got to help.

He was so tired at this morning 2:30am wake up call that he didn't make it to the lawn, and 'deposited' on the deck instead before trotting straight back to bed. This morning 5:30 call he couldn't even be arsed to get out of his crate so I left him there for Emma at 6:30.

He is such a great little chap.

Cheers.