Puppy Vaccinations - "new" Type Of Vaccinations?

[Molz_25]

I am getting a lab puppy in about a month's time and have rung around a few Vets to see what sort of vaccinations the pup will require as I seem to have mixed response from people at work I have spoken to.

The breeder will have the pup vaccinated at 6 weeks. As far as I am aware, the next vaccination is at 12 weeks and then another at 16 weeks... This was from one vet who says he prefers the "traditional" way - I then asked about the "new" vaccine on the market which can be given at 10 weeks (according to another vet). The 10 week vaccine is supposed to be better as it eliminates vaccinating a 3rd time at 16 weeks.

What is everyone's opinion - should I go:

(1) traditional way - 12 weeks, then 16 weeks vaccination

(2) "new" way - do the 10 weeks vaccine and then nothing till 1 year old

I am now confused as I don't know which is a better option !

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Molino]

Hmmm, the new way would allow your pup to get out much earlier which i guess is more convenient.

[Mini_M]

I am getting a lab puppy in about a month's time and have rung around a few Vets to see what sort of vaccinations the pup will require as I seem to have mixed response from people at work I have spoken to.

Does your breeder have a suggestion? Our breeder said not to get the new vaccine because she's heard of dogs having a bad reaction to it. Our vet assured us that she's probably being over-cautious, but was happy to give our Milo the traditional shots. That was the C3 vaccination at 6 weeks (before we got him), the C3 + kennel cough vacc at 12 weeks (I think this may be a C5?) , and then another C3 at 16 weeks.

[Clyde]

New way It's a 3 yrly vax too.

[Ceilidh]

You do realise it isn't a new vaccine? It is just a newish protocol. I Vacc at 6 weeks, 12 weeks, 15 months. That's it, no more.

[PAX]

Have the second vaccination at 12 weeks not 10, then your puppy will need another vaccine twelve months from the date of the 12 week injection.

[Tassie]

I think the OP is talking about a new vaccine called Nobivac - given at 10 weeks - one shot, I think. Some vets down here are using it. A couple of people I know have used it with no problems, but that's a very small sample.

I didn't use it as my pup was vacicnated with C3 at 6 weeks, so I just had the C5 at 12 weeks - was expecting to maybe have a 3rd at 18 weeks - but my vet says he doesn't do that 3rd one now - so Rory's next shot will be at 15 months.

AFAIK there is a 3 year version of the more usual C3, but there may also be vets who are using the usual C3, but following the American 3 year protocol.

[ness]

Kenzie was C3 vaccinated at 6 weeks and then on recommendation from the breeder she was vaccinated at 13 weeks rather than 12 weeks and we skipped the third puppy vaccination. Her next vaccination will be at 15 months.

[stormie]

Have a read of Jean Dodds recommendations. She prefers one shot before 12 weeks and one shot after - 4 weeks apart, ie 10wks and 14wks.

[Molz_25]

Sorry to ask this silly question - where can I find Jean Dodds recommendation on this?

Does she recommend 3 vaccinations in total?

[huski]

Sorry to ask this silly question - where can I find Jean Dodds recommendation on this?

Does she recommend 3 vaccinations in total?

I just did a quick search and here is a great thread that discusses Dodd's view on vaccinations:

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...=134887&hl=

[auto]

Tell me if i wrong but I thought as long as the pup had a c4 at 6-8wks it then had c4 or c5 at 12wks and then it only needed 12mthly but if had c3 at 6-8wks then it needs 3 needles before starting the 12mthly

[wayrod]

I haven't heard too much on new vaccines as yet so anyone with any knowledge of this new vaccination, any ideas on isolation periods? and is this a dormant or Live vaccine.

Some of the veterinary certificates I have seen lately have wording along the lines of ïsolate your dog for a period of fourteen days from the date of this vaccination.

Also some of the vaccination certificates of late, especially with canine cough components, mentions the wording "Live Vaccine" and to isolate for a minimum of fourteen days, even for booster shots.

[Dogsfevr]

Tell me if i wrong but I thought as long as the pup had a c4 at 6-8wks it then had c4 or c5 at 12wks and then it only needed 12mthly but if had c3 at 6-8wks then it needs 3 needles before starting the 12mthly

We never do puppy vaccs of C4 or higher .

Firs vacc is always C3 .

Some vets though do the over kill of C6 or C7 & i think there is another after that.

Now C7 is right form a small percentage of areas

[Pixie's mum]

I wanted to vaccinate with Nobivac so that we could start socialising at 12wks but our vet didn't do them. I really regretted not pushing the issue as we couldn't begin socialising until 18 weeks. 6 weeks makes a big difference and Fergus was quite scared of cars etc. for a while after we were allowed to take him out.

Having previously cared for a parvo pup (who got it at 10 weeks after never being outside) we were not willing to risk taking him out until he was fully vaccinated.

In saying all that he is such a happy, social 7 month old puppy now and our female who had parvo is also very happy and social and just over 2 years old.

[Wilderblu]

I normally had my litters vaccinated with a C3 at 6 weeks and then the new owners normally got a C5 at 10 and 14 weeks but my vet offered me the new C5 that can be given to the 6 week old pup meaning the new owners only need to get the one booster at 10 weeks (then annually) and can therefore get into the socialization much quicker. My vet does the 3 yearly C3 but it doesn't cover kennel cough so it depends on who you are if that is suitable or not.

Occasionally my previous litters showed signs such as less activity on the day after vaccinations but the lastest litter of 7 didn't show any signs with their C5 jabs.

[Clyde]

I wanted to vaccinate with Nobivac so that we could start socialising at 12wks but our vet didn't do them. I really regretted not pushing the issue as we couldn't begin socialising until 18 weeks. 6 weeks makes a big difference and Fergus was quite scared of cars etc. for a while after we were allowed to take him out.

Any vet can readily order them in, and probably would if you said you would go elsewhere.

My preferred clinic to use has been using the Nobivac for sometime now.

It makes me wonder why other practices aren't keen to make the switch. Less money long term perhaps?

[Jed]

They are EXACTLY the same. The manufacturer is touting them as "different" because they think that is the easiest way to promote the "new" vaccination protocol.

First vaccination at 6 to 8 weeks - C3, C4 or C5 - I prefer C3, safer, and it does cover the 3 main diseases pups are prone to

Second vaccination at 10 to 12 weeks - see above.

No more until the pup is 12 months +

auto

Tell me if i wrong but I thought as long as the pup had a c4 at 6-8wks it then had c4 or c5 at 12wks and then it only needed 12mthly but if had c3 at 6-8wks then it needs 3 needles before starting the 12mthly

Yep, you are wrong. The C3 contains 3 modified viruses - parvo, hepatitis and distempter. The C4 and C5 contains the aforementioned plus vac. for kennel cough. C7 contains the ones in the C5, plus lepto and corona virus. Lepto rarely occurs outside of the tropics (north of Mackay) and corona is a puppy disease.

If the pup has a C3 at 6 - 8 weeks, he needs another (C3, C4 or whatever) at 10 - 12 weeks. He doesn't need another at 16 weeks. The only difference is the number of modified live vaccines in the injections - the number - ie, 3 or 4 or 5 designates the number of virus vaccinated against.

Hope this makes sense, if not ask again.

Here is W Jean Dodds protocol, which is accepted world wide

CHANGING VACCINE PROTOCOLS

W. Jean Dodds, DVM

938 Stanford Street

Santa Monica, CA 90403

(310) 828-4804;FAX (310)-828-8251

www.hemopet.org; [email protected]

The challenge to produce effective and safe vaccines for the prevalent infectious diseases of humans and animals has become increasingly difficult. In veterinary medicine, evidence implicating vaccines in triggering immune-mediated and other chronic disorders (vaccinosis) is compelling. While some of these problems have been traced to contaminated or poorly attenuated batches of vaccine that revert to virulence, others apparently reflect the host=s genetic predisposition to react adversely upon receiving the single (monovalent) or multiple antigen “combo” (polyvalent) products given routinely to animals. Animals of certain susceptible breeds or families appear to be at increased risk for severe and lingering adverse reactions to vaccines.

The onset of adverse reactions to conventional vaccinations (or other inciting drugs, chemicals, or infectious agents) can be an immediate hypersensitivity or anaphylactic reaction, or can occur acutely (24-48 hours afterwards), or later on (10-45 days) in a delayed type immune response often caused by immune-complex formation. Typical signs of adverse immune reactions include fever, stiffness, sore joints and abdominal tenderness, susceptibility to infections, central and peripheral nervous system disorders or inflammation, collapse with autoagglutinated red blood cells and jaundice, or generalized pinpoint hemorrhages or bruises. Liver enzymes may be markedly elevated, and liver or kidney failure may accompany bone marrow suppression. Furthermore, recent vaccination of genetically susceptible breeds has been associated with transient seizures in puppies and adult dogs, as well as a variety of autoimmune diseases including those affecting the blood, endocrine organs, joints, skin and mucosa, central nervous system, eyes, muscles, liver, kidneys, and bowel. It is postulated that an underlying genetic predisposition to these conditions places other littermates and close relatives at increased risk.

In cats, while adverse vaccine reactions may be less common, aggressive tumors (fibrosarcomas) can occasionally arise at the site of vaccination. A recent study from Italy reported finding similar tumors in dogs at the injection sites of vaccinations (Vascellari et al, 2003). These investigators stated that their “study identified distinct similarities between canine fibrosarcomas from presumed injection sites and feline post-vaccinal fibrosarcomas, suggesting the possibility of the development of post-injection sarcomas not only in cats, but also in dogs”.

Additionally, vaccination of pet and research dogs with polyvalent vaccines containing rabies virus or rabies vaccine alone was shown to induce production of antithyroglobulin autoantibodies, a provocative and important finding with implications for the subsequent development of hypothyroidism (Scott-Moncrieff et al, 2002).

Vaccination also can overwhelm the immunocompromised or even healthy host that is repeatedly challenged with other environmental stimuli and is genetically predisposed to react adversely upon viral exposure. The recently weaned young puppy or kitten entering a new environment is at greater risk here, as its relatively immature immune system can be temporarily or more permanently harmed. Consequences in later life may be the increased susceptibility to chronic debilitating diseases.

As combination vaccines contain antigens other than those of the clinically important infectious disease agents, some may be unnecessary; and their use may increase the risk of adverse reactions. With the exception of recently introduced mutivalent Leptospira spp. vaccines, the other leptospirosis vaccines afford little protection against the clinically important fields strains of leptospirosis, and the antibodies they elicit typically last only a few months. Other vaccines, such as for Lyme disease, may be advisable only in those geographical areas where the risk of exposure to Borrelia burgdorferi is significant. Annual or biannual revaccination for rabies is required by some states even though most USDA licensed rabies vaccine have a 3-year duration. Thus, the overall risk-benefit ratio of using certain vaccines or multiple antigen vaccines given simultaneously and repeatedly should be reexamined. It must be recognized, however, that we have the luxury of asking such questions today only because the risk of disease has been effectively reduced by the widespread use of vaccination programs.

Given this troublesome situation, what are the experts saying about these issues? In 1995, a landmark review commentary focused the attention of the veterinary profession on the advisability of current vaccine practices. Are we overvaccinating companion animals, and if so, what is the appropriate periodicity of booster vaccines ? Discussion of this provocative topic has generally lead to other questions about the duration of immunity conferred by the currently licensed vaccine components.

In response to questions posed in the first part of this article, veterinary vaccinologists have recommended new protocols for dogs and cats. These include: 1) giving the puppy or kitten vaccine series followed by a booster at one year of age; 2) administering further boosters in a combination vaccine every three years or as split components alternating every other year until; 3) the pet reaches geriatric age, at which time booster vaccination is likely to be unnecessary and may be unadvisable for those with aging or immunologic disorders. In the intervening years between booster vaccinations, and in the case of geriatric pets, circulating humoral immunity can be evaluated by measuring serum vaccine antibody titers as an indication of the presence of Aimmune memory@. Titers do not distinguish between immunity generated by vaccination and/or exposure to the disease, although the magnitude of immunity produced just by vaccination is usually lower (see Tables).

Except where vaccination is required by law, all animals, but especially those dogs or close relatives that previously experienced an adverse reaction to vaccination can have serum antibody titers measured annually instead of revaccination. If adequate titers are found, the animal should not need revaccination until some future date. Rechecking antibody titers can be performed annually, thereafter, or can be offered as an alternative to pet owners who prefer not to follow the conventional practice of annual boosters. Reliable serologic vaccine titering is available from several university and commercial laboratories and the cost is reasonable (Twark and Dodds, 2000; Lappin et al, 2002; Paul et al, 2003; Moore and Glickman, 2004).

Relatively little has been published about the duration of immunity following vaccination, although new data are beginning to appear for both dogs and cats.

Our recent study (Twark and Dodds, 2000), evaluated 1441 dogs for CPV antibody titer and 1379 dogs for CDV antibody titer. Of these, 95.1 % were judged to have adequate CPV titers, and nearly all (97.6 %) had adequate CDV titers. Vaccine histories were available for 444 dogs (CPV) and 433 dogs (CDV). Only 43 dogs had been vaccinated within the previous year, with the majority of dogs (268 or 60%) having received a booster vaccination 1-2 years beforehand. On the basis of our data, we concluded that annual revaccination is unnecessary. Similar findings and conclusions have been published recently for dogs in New Zealand (Kyle et al, 2002), and cats (Scott and Geissinger, 1999; Lappin et al, 2002). Comprehensive studies of the duration of serologic response to five viral vaccine antigens in dogs and three viral vaccine antigens in cats were recently published by researchers at Pfizer Animal Health ( Mouzin et al, 2004).

When an adequate immune memory has already been established, there is little reason to introduce unnecessary antigen, adjuvant, and preservatives by administering booster vaccines. By titering annually, one can assess whether a given animal=s humoral immune response has fallen below levels of adequate immune memory. In that event, an appropriate vaccine booster can be administered.

[sandgrubber]

In consultation with my vet, I vaccinate pups who are ready to be placed as close to 8 wks as practical. I recommend a second vaccination at 12 weeks.

8 wks is better than 6 wks because there's a chance that the immunity conferred by the mother's milk will attack and disable the vaccine. This wears off over time. Newer vaccines are said to be more resistant to maternal antibodies, but what the hell, manufacturers say a lot of things that are only partially true, so better safe than sorry.

In theory the 8 wk vaccination should be adequate, but because parvo is such a horrid disease, it's better to go for a second round of jabs some week later. As I understand it 12 weeks is a little safer than 10 weeks for the same reason that 8 weeks is better than 6 weeks.

I recommend keeping an ear to the ground . .. if parvo is going around, or if you have a breed that is especially succeptable (I've heard that Dobes and Rottis are), I'd say better safe than sorry and go in for the 16th week jab, knowing full well that it's probably a waste of money.