4 Paws Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Was looking at different head halters and their features and noticed both the Halti and the Gentle Leader mention that if you pull the lead upwards you can in fact bring the dogs jaw together if it's barking etc. Just wondered if anyone knows if the Blackdog brand one has the same feature as there is no mention of it on the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I have tried both the Gentle Leader and Sporn brands (the Sporn is the most similar to the Black Dog, I believe) and neither of them will stop a dog from barking, biting, eating, drinking. If they are properly fitted, they shouldn't interfere with the mouth mechanism at all......the nose band should sit high enough on the nose that the mouth is unobstructed in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Paws Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 I have tried both the Gentle Leader and Sporn brands (the Sporn is the most similar to the Black Dog, I believe) and neither of them will stop a dog from barking, biting, eating, drinking. If they are properly fitted, they shouldn't interfere with the mouth mechanism at all......the nose band should sit high enough on the nose that the mouth is unobstructed in any way. here's a section out of info on the halti I found It is NOT a muzzle. When fitted properly, your dog is free to open its mouth to eat, drink, pant, fetch, bark and even bite - except when you close its mouth by pulling on the leash. http://www.bowhouse.com.au/p/452062/halti-...headcollar.html and I've read similar info about the gentle leader.I actually remembered I had a halti here I used to use on the foxie and popped it on him and you can pull the lead straight up and his jaws are closed in that position,just wondered if teh Blackdog one does the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Hmmm......I would never think to do that, it would be pretty difficult to do without hurting the dogs neck, I'd have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 It is my understanding that all halti's can do this - if you pull upwards, you can shut the dogs mouth. As to whether or not I would do it or recommend it to be done is a different matter I would assume that because the black dog and halti have the ability to constrict would be better at this. It still shouldn't hurt the neck if used correctly as it should be one smooth movement.... but I still wouldn't do it. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Was looking at different head halters and their features and noticed both the Halti and the Gentle Leader mention that if you pull the lead upwards you can in fact bring the dogs jaw together if it's barking etc.Just wondered if anyone knows if the Blackdog brand one has the same feature as there is no mention of it on the internet Yes - it would have similar action. As to which brand you use (if you're going to use one) depends on what fits the dog the best. If you've not used a head collar before I would strongly recommend you have at least one lesson tutoring you on how the head-collar should fit, how to use it and how NOT to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Paws Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) Was looking at different head halters and their features and noticed both the Halti and the Gentle Leader mention that if you pull the lead upwards you can in fact bring the dogs jaw together if it's barking etc.Just wondered if anyone knows if the Blackdog brand one has the same feature as there is no mention of it on the internet Yes - it would have similar action. As to which brand you use (if you're going to use one) depends on what fits the dog the best. If you've not used a head collar before I would strongly recommend you have at least one lesson tutoring you on how the head-collar should fit, how to use it and how NOT to use it. thanks,yes I have used a blackdog one before a few years ago when I attended a 6 week course through a delta trainer but I sold the harness ages ago and was just reading about the halti having the ability to close the mouth so looked up gentle leaders as well to see if they did the same thing and the the Black Dog one but there was no mention of it on their website about it I was actually looking into them as I am looking at instructing at our local obedience club and they sell a few different brands of head collars so was wanting to find any benefits of one over the other basically if someone wanted to buy one Edited February 18, 2009 by 4 Paws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) The "Halti" brand's muzzle tends to be further down the dog's nose than the GL or the BD (although BD has the capacity to be further down the dog's nose than the GL). I am speaking generally of course. So if the only reason you are thinking of using a head collar is for the barking issue, I would probably like to investigate the Halti. However, how this fits on the dog as well as the dog's temperament needs to be taken into account. Being further down the dog's muzzle means it is easier for the dog to slip the muzzle. So you really need to take all factors into account. Note though that I'm not advising on your 'use' of the head collar, only answering your direct question in relation to different brand styles. If you understand how each brand style differs and the effect/affect (ie pros/cons) of this, it helps you give the right advice to your clients and to determine which head collar would be the best for their dog/s. What did the Delta Course teach you in relation to head collars? Did they cover several brand styles, or only discuss the one? Also note that no head collar should be regarded as a muzzle. Edited February 18, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Paws Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 The "Halti" brand's muzzle tends to be further down the dog's nose that the GL or the BD (although BD has the capacity to be further down the dog's nose than the GL). I am speaking generally of course. So if the only reason you are thinking of using a head collar is for the barking issue, I would probably like to investigate the Halti. However, how this fits on the dog as well as the dog's temperament needs to be taken into account. Being further down the dog's muzzle means it is easier for the dog to slip the muzzle. So you really need to take all factors into account.Note though that I'm not advising on your 'use' of the head collar, only answering your direct question in relation to different brand styles. Also note that no head collar should be regarded as a muzzle. thanks Erny,appreciate your thoughts,thats exactly what I was after. Have seen the GL on a few dogs at training and can't really see how they would close the dogs mouth if lead was pulled up as it sits so high up on the nose but they do claim it's possible on there website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 No worries 4paws. I edited my above post I think before you had a chance to see it. Just curious regards to what Delta teaches in relation to head collars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) Have seen the GL on a few dogs at training and can't really see how they would close the dogs mouth if lead was pulled up as it sits so high up on the nose but they do claim it's possible on there website Yes - it is still possible. Don't forget that head collars, when applied, cause discomfort/pain to the dog. It is an aversive tool although there are many people who promote it as a "positive" training tool. So even IF the muzzle strap did not in itself close the dog's mouth (which it still can) the fact the dog receives the P+ effect from the head collar would add to the discouragement of barking. Amongst other things you need to be careful that the dog isn't accidentally made to bite its own tongue though and you need to watch the handlers' timing. Head collars should not be used with quick, sharp movements. Yet the handler needs to convey the punishment of the head collar at the time of the dog's barking which in itself can be quite quick. Edited February 18, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Paws Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 No worries 4paws. I edited my above post I think before you had a chance to see it. Just curious regards to what Delta teaches in relation to head collars. It was a couple of years ago,maybe 3 actually and it was only a basic manners class.The lady who run it was doing it out of a vets at the time so from memory she recommended the brands the vets sold which was the Blackdog and possiblyt the Gentle Leader,can't really remember but I know they really pushed for all the dogs in the class to have a head collar at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubyroo Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I like the fit of the black dog gentle leader rather than the halti. I found the halti sat to close to my dogs eyes and rubbed quite a bit, she was quite the puller!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karly101 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) The black dog I bought (the normal one) has a stopper to .. well stop the lead pulling the muzzle section too tight..I found it did fit a lot better than the normal halti but I've now stopped using it as my dog HATED it (even with bribary) and all he does the entire time it's on is try to fight it and as a tool it just didn't teach him to stop pulling (sure when you use it it's physically impossible NOT to pull but thats not the same thing as teaching not to pull). You could still use it to stop barking I guess but I'd also worry about hurting the neck. The pro's of the black dog is really the fit.. our dog managed to escape the normal halti's several times (by putting his head down quickly and pawing it off) .. Edited February 21, 2009 by karly101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 The black dog I bought (the normal one) has a stopper to .. well stop the lead pulling the muzzle section too tight.. ... Are you sure? I haven't seen this "stopper" on any head collar (Black Dog inclusive). Perhaps it is a new version of the Black Dog (regular) head collar? Are you sure you're not referring to the slider that is used to fit the muzzle strap so that it is not too loose on the dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I would like to do a comparison between headcollars and haltis and see which one's burn on the fire the quickest!!Sad to see people using a gadget that is specie's innappropriate and no subsitute for proper training. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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