Please Help Me Teach My Gsd :d

[Grey]

Hi there

I realise that this has probably been done before, but i couldnt find anything that seemed specifically applicable to me, please bear with me if i have overlooked anything, i apologise if i have!

I own (am owned? i fear this could be more apt) a 9.5 month old GSD. She has a lovely nature and we did puppy school so she is very well socialised to both people and dogs (cats she loves a little too much :S) and although i was training at home with her, i decided i was not progressing as fast as i would hope, and we are currently due for our 3rd week of basic training this sunday.

When we go for walks, we started on a flat collar and as she grew in size and strength changed to a check chain (which is what my family dogs always had as i was growing up). I have had to get rid of the check chain however as I could not actually correct her with it, she constantly surges ahead and pulls to do her own thing, and at the risk of harming her through incorrect use I changed to a halti.

This works relatively well - it is def. easier to restrain her when she surges - and when walking down the main street/shops in my suburb she heels to a certain extent (always on the left, head slightly ahead of my knee, but in close) although she will still surge ahead if i relax and get too confident

My issue is that, depending on the time of day, where the sun is, the weather, the wind direction, exchange rate etc, she is not altogether food orientated so my attempts to 'yes' and treat as she heels correctly are a bit hit and miss as she hears the yes, then ignores the treat to surge ahead or look in another direction..

I have attempted toy reward instead, simply to get her attention, but dependent on random factors she often ignores that too

Is there another way that i am missing? I have tried stopping still when she walks ahead, and she just surges, then stops and sniffs, comes back and circles behind to my left then walks ahead again.. (walks of one carlength have taken over 20 mins ) I turn direction, and she catches up, i 'yes' offer treat and 9/10 she will ignore to walk straight past me!! If by chance she circles to a heel then sits, i reward, cause i would like her to do that heel and sit in some off lead situations, but as soon as i start walking she surges off again.

We have (almost) mastered sitting at all road cnrs and crossings and (again almost) mastered waiting for free command to enter and exit doorways and also to eat dinner.. BUT...

Walks are not fun instances, however, i know she knows a heel, as once she is tired out (after off lead ball chasing in park or loo-oong walk) she will heel beautifully all the way home . We also have some issues with jumping to greet (especially nanna's who spoil her) but that is improving every day with ignoring and treating once flat on ground in drop or on back for belly scratch.

i would really appreciate any assistance/tips etc or even a link to a related thread in case i really have wasted ppl's time :cool:

Grey

[Cosmolo]

Beautiful dog! Have you been to group training or ever had a trainer come out to help you- its not the equipment you use, its the techniqe that accompanies it, which is often best demonstrated rather than explained. What treats have you tried? Have you tried teaching heel at home when you are stationery?

[huski]

i would really appreciate any assistance/tips etc or even a link to a related thread in case i really have wasted ppl's time

Grey

Welcome to DOL! I personally don't like haltis, as I find they aren't a particularly effective tool for *teaching* loose leash walking, especially as often if you take it off the dog will still pull. There was a thread recently on haltis, you might like to read here:

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=159464

The problem with a dog that pulls, is that any time they are allowed to do it they are learning that strength gets them where they want to go. I used the technique of changing direction with my dogs as soon as they started pulling and this worked well for them as they learned they can't get any where they want to go by pulling.

What sort of treats are you using? If I am using food to train I only use really high value treats like chicken, sausage, cheese etc. I never use dried treats - always something soft and smelly.

She may not be that food driven - does she like toys? Maybe you can try using her ball or a tug toy as a reward instead of food?

ETA: I agree with Cosmolo that it might be worthwhile for you to look at doing a couple of one on one lesson with a trainer, so they can show you the right techniques that are suitable for your dog

Edited February 18, 2009 by huski

[Grey]

Beautiful dog! Have you been to group training or ever had a trainer come out to help you- its not the equipment you use, its the techniqe that accompanies it, which is often best demonstrated rather than explained. What treats have you tried? Have you tried teaching heel at home when you are stationery?

I am kind of biased - but yup, she is just lovely!! he he!

We are enrolled in group training at the moment, third class this weekend and i will harrass the trainer then as well, but was hoping for some more input as last week we touched on loose lead walking and his advice was toy or food reward, which sometimes works really well, but generally only in the loungeroom where no distractions, outside, or AT dog school and they are ignored. The other option was when she surges to catch her attention with the toy - however she looks then ignores that as well outside the house.

Oh - and you are right, i realise that this is not the equipment, nor Skylla's fault, it is all my issue, and my technique, i am open to all suggestions as I really want to improve!

Treats - i have tried dried liver (which worked well to teach her to return inside at night after toilet runs) but now doesnt cut it, along with some other nibbly stuff. I am thinking i may have to graduate to raw meat/cooked sausage or possibly roast beef cubes to make it great, although i was using cooked chicken the other day and as we were on the street she ignored it .

pls forgive my ignorance, but how do i teach heel at home stationary? do i simply say 'heel' then yes and reward when she sits by my left side?

[Grey]

thanks for the welcome

i think you may be right, and i will bring the big guns out in terms of what treat is being used tomorrow. And i also agree, i was wary of the halti as i knew it would help control her (strength wise) but i dont want her on a halti forever and i almost viewed it as having to train once, then all over again once i took halti off.

[luvsdogs]

Are you using the halti alone? If so I would also use a flat collar with either a double ended lead or connector to protect her from neck damage if she pulls on the halti.

[JulesP]

I find that the usual reason that the changing of direction doesn't work is that the handler just does it too slow. You need to turn quickly and move off smartly so the dog is going 'what the hell, were is mum going'. And you need to keep turning the instance the dog is at the end of lead. You may get dizzy!

The other issue I see is people not rewarding enough when the dog is in the heel position. Your dog may prefer verbal praise to toys or treats. But you have to make that heel position the best place in the universe to be.

[Jigsaw]

I'm also not a big fan of haltis. It sounds as if from your description that perhaps sometimes everything is too much for her and that's why she can't take the treats or the toys. A higher value treat may work, this is where soft food like frankfurts, sausages may work. But if there is too much sensory overload the dog just can't take one more thing including food. Does she work better for you at home where there are less distractions? You may have to build up the distraction level and introduce new things slowly.

There is another method of loose leash walking I've seen which is walking backwards in front of the dog, who is off lead or dragging it and treat, treat, treat, shovel it in and then you turn so that you are next to the dog in heel position and treat for a couple of steps and walk backwards again. Initially the backward walking is for a longer time than the forward walking (for the handler) but it helps the dog learn to focus on you and find the right spot where they get the rewards. I think this is a method where you practise a lot at home first! But it might help gain the focus when you go near something she finds distracting.

But it is probably worth your while getting some one on one with a trainer to help you.

[Grey]

thanks so much!

i will incorporate the suggestions tomorrow after our run in the park

thanks again for your time and responses :cool:

[gsdx3]

Could I suggest that you do your training prior to the run in the park? The run free is then a reward.

[Grey]

Could I suggest that you do your training prior to the run in the park? The run free is then a reward.

really? i will try that, it's just all i have been told and read indicate that the best time to do training like that is after she has gotten all her initial energy out and therefore once she is a little bit more relaxed she will have a higher chance of succeeding (reinforced by her perfect heel all the way home after such runs!).. I am no expert though so i am open to all suggestions from those who have done all this before Thanks i will try that on monday after the sports clubs release the oval again

[The Spotted Devil]

Could I suggest that you do your training prior to the run in the park? The run free is then a reward.

really? i will try that, it's just all i have been told and read indicate that the best time to do training like that is after she has gotten all her initial energy out and therefore once she is a little bit more relaxed she will have a higher chance of succeeding (reinforced by her perfect heel all the way home after such runs!).. I am no expert though so i am open to all suggestions from those who have done all this before Thanks i will try that on monday after the sports clubs release the oval again

I do all my formal training before the free run - I actually love training while the dog is full of beans....you can channel that energy into something constructive (particularly if the dog is toy motivated). It may take a few sessions before the dog understands that they have to work hard mentally before they get to have a good sprint. During the free run I don't allow him to just do what he wants all the time either - a number of informal recalls, sits, drops, stays etc are always incorporated to ensure he keeps one eye on me....which can be quite a challenge with a Dally

[Grey]

ahh ok..

and no no, it isnt just free run time when we go, it is chasing a tennis ball (i find she has no inclination to wander or be away from me when i have a tennis ball in my hand - but i am not allowed to use tennis balls at dog school lol) and i incorporate a lot of recall work, sits and drops etc, we are just starting to get into the stays, but no food reward, just a throw of the ball as reward seems enough at present. We have not mastered distance commands.. i have her attention and i command, but she returns to me and then does what i ask, so i need a bit more work on that aspect!