JulesP Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Funny how different our different dogs are! Mine seem to like whizzing really close behind me and are quite slow with any sort of flipping. When I asked about other reasons for not doing a U turn or flip I was talking about the effects on agility. Should have made that clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xena98 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I got pinged in UD for a flip finish (will admit the dog doesn't actually do flip finishes normally but chose to on this occasion). Never mind as she had failed another exercise but if they want to fail you they are much more likely to find a reason to fail the flip finish then the around the back finish. Huhh. I havent been pinged for that. Did it with Xena gave up with it as she just got lazy and just moved her butt up and down and didnt end up in the heel position but when she was doing it I never got pinged though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I'm one of those who had to drag my hand right around my back to get Ruby to go deep enough to end up back at heel so we will be sticking to round the back finishes in the ring. I will keep practicing the other finish at home, though. I didn't realise dogs who jumped up to return to heel lost points? Or did I just misinterpret that? As for left about U turn's, I was taught with the dog going behind me so will probably stick with this with Ruby until I can get her U-turn better (if I pivot on the spot she automatically goes around me, doesn't move her back end in :cool:) but as for Millie who hasn't been taught a left about turn properly yet, I think I'll try go with the U-turn with her if I can teach it properly! I'm trying to teach Ruby some back end awareness to help with her left about turns but until that is up there, round the back of me will do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Funny how different our different dogs are! Mine seem to like whizzing really close behind me and are quite slow with any sort of flipping. When I asked about other reasons for not doing a U turn or flip I was talking about the effects on agility. Should have made that clearer. There was a bit of discussion about that on the first page, I think. What GD and LD were saying is that they would only do the U turn and flip finish because otherwise you are teaching and rewarding your dog for blind crossing you, so it weakens your teaching about blind cross bodyline and reinforcement zone which is the core of Greg's handling system. I think Susan Garrett would say the same. The dog blind crossing weakens the connection between you and your dog, and may cause the dog to have questions - which the Derretts argue should be avoided. They didn't say "Don't do it" - just that if you do the round the back, be aware that it may have some negative fall out on your agility. So I guess, in starting out with a new dog, you may teach the flip and U turn, but if you have a really nice round the back with an existing dog, you may want to stick with that, and wear any consequences there may be in agility. (And after all the GD and SG systems are all about shaving fractions of seconds and winning World Cups - not necessarily ambitions we share - well, certainly not me. :cool: ) On the other hand, as I think it was lp said, dogs may be smart enough to figure the difference in different disciplines - just as they are encouraged to pull ahead of you in tracking, and can cope with heeling on right and left for HTM and switch back for obedience.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) Well then I must just not have been popular on NYE Xena cos I was told I failed signals heelwork because of it yet friends watched the video and said that was being unharshly done by and they probably would have scraped her through. Not that it mattered and I found it quite funny considering I never trained it :cool: . ETA. Besides I have already broken my new dog who thinks circling around me is the best game ever. Well it beats her flying back and crashing into me . Edited February 18, 2009 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I think that you do get pinged if you ask for one sort of finish and the dog offers the other one. Perhaps that was the problem Ness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) Not sure why that should matter Jules. You have given the dog a signal to finish (as it was in this case). The signal you use is irrelevant. There is nothing in the rules to dictate the signal you use as long as its not extended. Like I said it wasn't of consequence to me and I got a bit of a laugh out of the fact she had offered the other finish. Edited February 19, 2009 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Just what I have been told at club Ness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Interesting - they made no comment about the finish though and more about my left turns. No idea as I got a judge friend to watch the video and she couldn't see why we had failed. Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) Is there anything in the rules saying what signals you have to use? If not, then it should not matter what signal you use, if the dog does the exercise. Why do you get pinged if the dog jumps in the flip/military finish? ETA: so this person would get pinged hey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW-HXi-0a_U Edited February 19, 2009 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilBailey Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 OMG that poor dogs ears. (sorry OT) That seemed like a poor flip with an extended hand signal anyway. Or is that what is expected of a flip. Flea doesn't go wide like that and have to walk back in she just jumps almost all the way around then shuffles her butt in. I have a vid some where I should find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 This is Diesel's finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Have you seen the way Patty Ruzzo's dogs do their finish? If dogs here lose points for jumping then Patty has downright flunked Love watching her stuff, she's amazing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Yeah they are pretty awesome . Kenzie jumps up too so not sure what I'll do with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 If Ruby doesn't get the position right the first time, when I ask her to do it again she jumps into position then. I thought it was cute but now I'll have to rethink it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I don't care . Kenzie will do it when I stop heeling if she is psycho and gets out of position. I'll stop and she will set herself back into correct position with a huge leap . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) I only care if it's a possible point loser!! Otherwise, I think it adds a little pizzazz to a dog's performance Edited February 19, 2009 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 It probably is but I'll worry about fixing it later. Rather keep the attitude at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I don't care . Kenzie will do it when I stop heeling if she is psycho and gets out of position. I'll stop and she will set herself back into correct position with a huge leap . Ziggy does that too I find that it builds enthusiasm so I don't mind....probably wouldn't use the flip finish in a trial as he does a lovely regular finish anyway but it's great for training, especially for a dog that gets bored in a nano second. He loves waiting to see what the next step is after a recall......flip finish, regular finish, return to dog or release - keeps him on his toes and stops him trying to predict what comes next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 This is Diesel's finish Kavik - I would guess some of the judges, certainly in WA, would take a point off in UD and UDX for the turn of the shoulders - as it could be considered a double signal. Will the dog still finish as nicely without you doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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