Astrobella Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Hi everyone - I'm desperate for some help! My 14 week old border collie x cattle dog is driving me nutso! He had a bit of bad luck (had meningitis - have posted re: this on the health board) and is on a gradually tapering dose of steroids to treat it (aggressiveness has been worse since he got home from hospital 3 weeks ago, but he was a bit aggro before he even got sick). Our problem is his biting and barking. First with the barking, as soon as we aren't behaving the way he wants us to (not paying attention to him, telling him to get off the couch) he starts barking at us. We have had a trainer out to the house to help before who recommended ignoring the barking - this sometimes works (when it's not paired with biting!). The biting....ah... he likes to bite us. Sometimes it starts off as a game, he strays slightly from his toy and gets us, if we say ouch or take our hand out of his mouth he starts with the barking and attempting to bite more. We were told to get up and leave in this situation so he knows that he gets the game withdrawn, but I don't think this works - first because he will follow us and bite on the way, and when we leave him he can promptly get back on the couch (which we were probably trying to get him off in the first place). Other times his biting seems a bit more deliberately. We had started to take him and tie him up on the leg of the dining room table when he did these things (he's still in the room though, just far enough away from us that he can't get into anything fun and knows he doesn't have freedom). Now if he knows we are going to tie him up he's added an extra part - the chase! He thinks it's great to run from us while we try to get him to tie him up.... So we're in a conundrum. Tie him up but really reward him in the end with the chase? Ignore the other behaviours (although the biting is becoming increasingly concerning because it really is starting to hurt and at the drawing blood stage). We do have him in a smaller part of the house during the day (in the hall way - blocked off with a baby gate), but we don't want him to associate being in there with punishment so don't really want to put him in there when he's done wrong. I do have some sympathies for him since he hasn't gotten too much of an opportunity to be really active these last three weeks on vet's orders, but I'm doubting these behaviours will magically disappear when he gets a bit more exercise... Any suggestions would be really appreciated! Help needed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 There is another thread on this http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=159548 which may help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I would add that you have a breed BRED to bite!! They were bred to nip at the heels of cattle.. to work all day.. to be tough, and very tolerant of pain. So... you really need to reward any occasion of calm behaviour!!! You may want to start with the Triangle of Temptation HERE and bring back trust... so he doesn't run away!! He needs to be occupied- mind and body. Several short obedience sessions a day... walks ON LEASH.. around the yard, or outside.. concentrating on walking nicely... yes, it's nice to see a pup sniffing and stuff.. but he needs 'work' I have never had a nippy dog, so cannot help specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdogs Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) You have to be so focused on not interacting with him when he does these things. Even a sigh will give him the attention he's demanding. When he's quiet give him praise. Stick with it, he will have an extinction burst b4 he gets better where he'll seem to get worse. Keep with it & he'll improve. I had the same thing with my cat when she was a kitten. She attacked our legs, feet & hands all the time. I don't remember a kitten like it. Check out this website. www.dogstardaily.com Edited February 17, 2009 by luvsdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie_Pup Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I would add that you have a breed BRED to bite!!They were bred to nip at the heels of cattle.. to work all day.. to be tough, and very tolerant of pain. My first thoughts exactly. My experience with cattle dogs is limited, however I try to avoid them if possible. We were on a farm the other day and they had to chain up their cattle dog because he was being so aggressive towards both us and Halle. I come across quite a few of them out where we live and my IMO they are not a nice dog But it is generally what they are bred for so it makes sense. BUT Lots of positive training will help. They need to learn that calm behaviour will get them attention, and that it worth it for them, and rough behaviour will get them nothing-no company, no attention, no reward at all. Find what works, and mot importantly, stick to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I come across quite a few of them out where we live and my IMO they are not a nice dog frown.gif Sorry if you haven't met any of the wonderful ones!! They can be terrific dogs... friendly, obedient and happy... like any dog- it is a combination of genetics and training! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Find what works, and mot importantly, stick to it! *NODS EMPHATICALLY* consistency is important! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie_Pup Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I come across quite a few of them out where we live and my IMO they are not a nice dog frown.gif Sorry if you haven't met any of the wonderful ones!! They can be terrific dogs... friendly, obedient and happy... like any dog- it is a combination of genetics and training! Oh I agree. I guess all the ones I have met are real working dogs on properties and, by my own admission, probably haven't received the amount of socialisation with other dogs and humans as most other dogs I know. But, what I know is what I know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I have a retired working cattle dog here atmy fet who has never in her life shown any aggression ever- and she was a great working dog too. They need leadership and boundaries and training = amazing ACD's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobella Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 Thanks everyone for your help - we will soldier on! There is one thing that is sort of working at the moment.... we have a spray bottle with water in it and if we show it to him when he's doing something he shouldn't he will stop and have a good think about what he's doing....(we don't even have to spray him any more...) It might not be the best solution but it's working for us at the moment! We haven't been able to completely ignore his behaviours because he just escalates (from attention barking...then to biting if he doesn't get any) and we won't tolerate any of the biting because it just plain hurts! I can't wait though until he can run outside in the yard freely though and get a bit of energy out! I am worried about his socialisation though....he's only been around 1 dog before (my parents' golden retriever x) who is such a sweety he lets marley do anything even if it's quite aggressive. We can't have him around other dogs yet because of the whole meningitis/steroids/not fully vaccinated issue, so he's going to miss out on a lot of learning there which is really unfortunate. He can still be around my folks dog because we know him/the yard, any ideas on how to do some socialisation training in this very limited circumstance (with a 12 month old retriever who doesn't do so well with the obedience himself!) I've never owned an ACD either.. .didn't know too much about them initially but got swayed by the Border Collie... (I did have a border collie x Labrador who was the sweetest thing ever). He's a challenge but he's still very affectionate and loyal, and I can understand why he's going a little crazy at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Are you going to training/ puppy school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobella Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 He was meant to start puppy school the day he was diagnosed with meningitis. He hasn't been able to go back as yet because he's still on an immuno-suppressive dose of steroids and hasn't had all his vaccinations so he's not safe to be around other dogs/unfamiliar environments. We did have the trainer come out one day to give us some help, some of which was great, some hasn't really worked for him. We are concerned about his interactions with other dogs...but until he can be around other dogs safely we don't have much of an option..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 How long will it be until you can take him out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobella Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 We have to wait till he's off the steroids and has had some kind of vaccination for Parvo, so maybe looking at 3 weeks more...all going to plan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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