E-collar Progress

[Just Midol]

I don't want to intrude on the other thread, actually, I am just egotistical and want my own thread.

Anyway, I've been working on the sit mostly, I do recall work but not as much yet as I want to do a few full on sessions of recall in a certain area (park an hour away) but haven't had the time off work. I've actually had my collars for ages, probably almost 6 months but only started 3 weeks ago.

When they are released from these sits, they come to me. Regardless of where I am, they just won't stop next to me so I just put them in a sit again when they get close. I've just worked on getting them to come in my direction without actually requiring the drop.

You can't see it in the photos, but in two they are next to cows, one they are next to a goat. All of them they have birds around them and in one two dogs are about 25m behind them (and they know it) so I'm just happy that I finally have some obedience under distraction.

Also, whilst I don't intend to ween them off the collar they actually respond fairly well with 0 stim! I accidentally turned it to zero (well, I meant to, I just didn't mean to leave it there) for about 15 minutes of the walk and they were performing all sits perfectly.

I use a combination of +R, -R and +P in my e-collar work. -R till they sit, +R once they sit (clicker + treat) and +P when they break the sit, especially at long distances.

Don't really care if anyone else finds this amazing. I am proud of what I've achieved with two dogs who I originally thought could never be offleash. I now believe that if I put in the work I can have these two offlead under any circumstance and all distractions. Progress might seem slow, we do one session on days I work (40 minutes long, worked into a walk) and two occasionally when I have days off. Lily has made huge progress as originally everything was a distraction for her. I swear she'd see an odd shaped stone and it'd be a distraction. Wind was a distraction. A puddle was a distraction. The sky was a distraction. Clouds were distractions.

I won't push the distance further, as a car could come and they may not get to me in time. Most people are pretty good with it when they realise I am training and slow down.

ETA: They are tied together as a fail safe, if one decides to bolt, they won't get far as they'll get tangled. Plus, Gizmo doesn't run very fast.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Just Midol

[Erny]

Glad it is going so well for you Midol. Must say, you're game working your dogs on what appears to be a reasonably 'main' road .... but you would know and understand the area better than I and perhaps it is a very quiet road. And I guess the 'tying together' is inventive. I assume it works for you so I won't comment there, but not sure it is something I would do. Having said that, the dogs I usually train and have trained are not 'family' so it isn't something I would contemplate.

But above all, it seems as though you are training in a fashion where your dogs are able to gain more and more freedom, yet without loss of effective control. The photo's are a bit distant, but they appear happy and focused on you . I am presuming use of the e-collar as P+ is only for known commands (in known situations).

Edited February 14, 2009 by Erny

[Just Midol]

Nah, it's not a main road. It's just been resurfaced and lined, for the 500th time. It melts in heat over 30 degrees or so. The dirt road no one goes down, it's falling apart

In a 40 minute walk we usually dont have a car go past, unless we leave at the same time people are going to work.

And yeah, +p only when I know they know what they were supposed to do. Same time I'd use a prong really. The tying together actually has more than one use. When I work I do 12 hour nights so can't do two 40 minute walks, so I walk them together. I use a two dog leash and cbf unclipping them to practice training so it's a mix of being lazy and an insurance policy. Gizmo I'd be comfortable with alone, but Lily can run uber fast.

ETA: I couldn't zoom, for some reason when I tried it went all bright :S

Edited February 15, 2009 by Just Midol

[corvus]

Aww, look at them sitting all patient and perfect. Such cuties. Looks like snake country, Midol.

Not trying to rain on your parade or anything, but Kivi came to his emergency recall yesterday when OH had a handful of roast beef right in front of his nose. Perhaps we will get there yet. Think I've managed to convince OH to check with me before he goes using that ER. Stays are a whole other matter, though. He is still better than Penny, but we don't practice it much. There's no way he'd be holding a stay for more than 5 seconds outside.

[Just Midol]

Yep, prime snake country which is why I find it funny when people say I never have to deal with snakes

Gotta be very careful with them going into that grass on the dirt road. I see red bellies there very often as there are a ton of frogs.

I actually find the extended sit pretty easy to teach. I suck at recalls though

[Just Midol]

I took the plunge today and did 30 mins solo with them @ the park, just on recalls. Luckily no one passed through the park, I think they all realised I was doing long distance obedience so they went around me

Anyway, Gizmo had one booboo, I put him in the stay, recalled him and he comes galloping to me (I reward with food when they get to me) and he just went straight past me running as fast as he could. I did have a 20m rope on him so I just grabbed that but no biggy, as he probably would have sat if I commanded him to but running = distraction and we haven't done obedience from a run before so I didn't want to. Gizmo started to become a velcro dog and his sit stay suffered as he kept getting up and sitting at my feet again but he got over that relatively quickly.

Lily was pretty good. She definitely knows what is expected of her, she is a very fast learner she just chooses not to respond so I've got to be on my game and make sure she has no option but respond. I'm slowly realising that with discipline and giving the dogs no option to fail in the learning stages it's all relatively easy.

I'm going to aim for 30 minutes each dog in the park for the next week, then a week in melbourne and then hopefully get right back into it. My goal is that when Lily goes home she has a reliable recall

[m-j]

When I work I do 12 hour nights

They do look as if they are being very good, well done, anyone who works 12 hr shifts deserves congratulations for bothering to train their dogs no matter what results they are getting.

Just out of curiosity would Gizmo turn and come after you if you ran (not walked) in the opposite direction when he ran past you? Some dogs don't.

cheers

M-J

[Just Midol]

When I work I do 12 hour nights

They do look as if they are being very good, well done, anyone who works 12 hr shifts deserves congratulations for bothering to train their dogs no matter what results they are getting.

Just out of curiosity would Gizmo turn and come after you if you ran (not walked) in the opposite direction when he ran past you? Some dogs don't.

cheers

M-J

Thanks :rolleyes:

Not entirely sure what he would do. At the time I didn't think of trying it, after the Axle saga I go into panic when my dogs run away from me so I just sprinted and grabbed the rope. If he does it again, I'll try running in the opposite direction (and making a bit of noise.) It wasn't a slow run through, he was running as fast as he could which isn't that fast for him (I can go faster).

[m-j]

Not entirely sure what he would do.

That can change each time too just depending on why he does/did the run past

cheers

M-J

[sandgrubber]

Hi Midol,

Good to hear about your successes.

I'm about to start e-collar training for the same reason as you . . . to get reliable recall and be able to let dogs off lead.

Could you please fill in a few details . . . or if you've stated them earlier, give us a lead about where the thread is. How many dogs are you training at a time? Are you using a two-collar system? What brand are you using? Are you using a 'system' or working it out on your own.

Keep us posted.

[Just Midol]

Not entirely sure what he would do.

That can change each time too just depending on why he does/did the run past

cheers

M-J

We work 100% with no lead now, but he did run past today. I decided just to let him. He went 30m then stopped turned around and looked at me as though to say "Oi, buddy, you coming?" and then returns or sniffs around when he realises I'm not.

He isn't a velcro dog yet, and does venture about 40m away but any further and he'll "think" about returning, which I don't want so I am gradually letting him go further.

Hi Midol,

Good to hear about your successes.

I'm about to start e-collar training for the same reason as you . . . to get reliable recall and be able to let dogs off lead.

Could you please fill in a few details . . . or if you've stated them earlier, give us a lead about where the thread is. How many dogs are you training at a time? Are you using a two-collar system? What brand are you using? Are you using a 'system' or working it out on your own.

Keep us posted.

I've been going for 1 week really. I did stop and start a few times but this time after seeing results quickly (I changed method) I am sticking with it.

Gizmo is offleash already, Lily isn't. Lily is distracted too easily. She knows the commands just as well as Gizmo but minor distractions for Giz are major distractions for her. It's frustrating having him progress so fast and her not, but I just don't show my frustration. Gizmo really has been a blessing. There is nothing better than running around the property off leash with him knowing that if I tried this a few weeks ago I'd have lost my dog.

I'm training two right now, but a third will start obedience work with it in a few weeks.

Using the two-collar system called the Dogtra 1902. I really like the dial on the top, without it I'd be lost. It allows you to increment the level without releasing the stim so when the dog does ignore you then you slowly wind it up, usually Gizmo comes within 5 extra levels and then won't try and ignore me again for a while.

One thing that is different between me and a normal home owner is I won't be weaning my dogs off the collars. I don't care if I have to use them all the time, as huskies go into this weird drive like state and can't hear you, so it's good for communication as well. They do respond to commands without the stim, but they'll always have their collars on.

K9Force from this site has a manual, and I'm following his methods. I'm also a member of a Yahoo group created by a fella called Lou who has been on here before (he is the one who slams the e-collar "studies" on here every now and then) and I follow the conversations in there, so I am constantly learning new ways, methods, issues others are having and how they've sorted it and how they've achieved success. The group is:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ModernEcollarTraining/

Feel free to throw any more questions but the response might be delayed, I work the next few nights then get straight on a plane to Melb. Only up now to buy Cesar Millan tickets.

[sandgrubber]

Thanks for the answers. Exactly what I wanted to hear. I've been balking at the price for the 1902 as a tool for training two dogs . . . from K9 Force. Sounds like it's worth the investment.

[Just Midol]

Yah it is!

Gizmo recalled off a group of ducks earlier. He did take 4 seconds or so, he hated immediately, watched, then turned and ran full pelt at me. Going to do a few more weeks then try the beach

ETA: I never give a command without a stim, the only reason I know they respond is because I accidentally had it on zero for 15 minutes once.

Edited February 19, 2009 by Just Midol