Alphas And Wolf Packs

[corvus]

That's pretty interesting, M-J! Rosella taxonomy has been worked over a bit in recent times. I can't find my bird book to check, but it's about 5 years old and lists Yellows as a race of the Crimson, if I remember correctly. And most white-cheeked rosellas, which the Eastern is, are now considered races as well I think. I could be wrong, though.

[Tonymc]

Wolves are the ancestors of our dogs so of course there are many similarities and yet some differences due to domestication.

Both Wolves and Dogs are predators,both are pack animals,both have prey drive,both hunt in packs due to size of prey{ although of course if opportunity presents itself will take small prey}both are in their highest state of receptiveness, co-ordination,adaptability,awareness and wholeness when in prey drive,both of course are opportunistic and will scavenge if an opportunity arises,

Differences are the Wolves natural aversion to man,Wolves come in season once a year not twice,Wolves have a much more consistent level of drive than domestic dogs.

I have seen firsthand a classic example of wolf behaviour a number of times in domestic dogs.I have loose dogs from around town, form a pack and away they go hunting. Tony

[m-j]

I can't find my bird book to check, but it's about 5 years old and lists Yellows as a race of the Crimson, if I remember correctly. And most white-cheeked rosellas, which the Eastern is, are now considered races as well I think. I could be wrong, though.

I have no idea about what is and isn't considered a race (my bird book is much older than yours and like yours is buried somewhere ), but their behaviour is very similar, compared to other genus with the exception of 28's Port Lincoln and Mallee's they are similar in behaviour as well as body shape, very different calls though. Even though the Rosella's calls are similar they aren't exactly the same I liken it to different dialects in humans ie the Yogoslaves where you have Croatians, Slovenians etc

I have seen firsthand a classic example of wolf behaviour a number of times in domestic dogs.I have loose dogs from around town, form a pack and away they go hunting.

Yep many pet dogs have been shot that way People not believeing their Fifi would dream of chasing sheep or not my dog he has been around sheep and I've never seen him chase them. Being in an uncontrolled pack can certainly change them.

cheers

M-J

[corvus]

Wolves are the ancestors of our dogs so of course there are many similarities and yet some differences due to domestication.

Both Wolves and Dogs are predators,both are pack animals,both have prey drive,both hunt in packs due to size of prey{ although of course if opportunity presents itself will take small prey}both are in their highest state of receptiveness, co-ordination,adaptability,awareness and wholeness when in prey drive,both of course are opportunistic and will scavenge if an opportunity arises,

Differences are the Wolves natural aversion to man,Wolves come in season once a year not twice,Wolves have a much more consistent level of drive than domestic dogs.

I have seen firsthand a classic example of wolf behaviour a number of times in domestic dogs.I have loose dogs from around town, form a pack and away they go hunting. Tony

So Tony, what does this mean to your perception of dogs if Mech is right and wolves don't "pack" so much as hang out in families, and there are no "alphas" as such, but parents?

Incidentally, Basenjis only come into season once a year.

I don't know what you mean about being in a consistent level of drive. It is my understanding that wolves don't even hunt every day, and are not always hunting when they are moving around. Are we talking about prey drive specifically?

I honestly think your example of wolf behaviour is a prime example of how dogs and wolves differ, seeing as a wolf would never team up with strange wolves spontaneously and go hunt. They are extremely wary and distrustful of strange wolves unless there is paternity in the offing. At least, that's the impression I got seeing as wolves will kill a trespassing wolf on their territory.

[Kelpie-i]

Extremely interesting thread.....

I haven't read all the posts here but thought I'd share information based on Ray Coppinger.

Here are some differences between wolves and dogs:

1. Contrary to our terminology to "Pack" is to "hunt". Therefore wolves do not live in a "pack" but rather pack when they hunt.

2. Dogs are not hunters, they are scavengers and do not hunt for survival (food) - done to death in another thread...I know!!! :D

3. Dogs have thicker skin than wolves do

4. Dogs have little photoperiodic response (ie become pregnant only when resources are high)

5. Dogs (Males) are not seasonal as male wolves are.

6. Wolves have short critical socialisation periods ie. 19 days, compared to the dog's 49 days.

7. Where the wolf shows the complete set of hunting motor patterns, dogs will only show some or few due to selective breeding.

Whilst dogs and wolves share identical mtDNA, they are not identical animals.

honestly think your example of wolf behaviour is a prime example of how dogs and wolves differ, seeing as a wolf would never team up with strange wolves spontaneously and go hunt. They are extremely wary and distrustful of strange wolves unless there is paternity in the offing. At least, that's the impression I got seeing as wolves will kill a trespassing wolf on their territory.

Amen!

I

don't know what you mean about being in a consistent level of drive. It is my understanding that wolves don't even hunt every day, and are not always hunting when they are moving around. Are we talking about prey drive specifically?

The hunting process can take days, sometimes up to a week. It is not something that is done within a few minutes like we see on Discovery channel. A wolf pack hunting Bison (as an example) may take a pack anything up to 7 days before they make the kill......IF they make the kill. This is not what dogs do....in fact dogs don't hunt for food and will resort to scavenging before they resort to hunting if need be. They team up with other feral dogs to play out their innate motor pattern of predatory drift for the thrill of the kill but not to survive for food.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Kelpie-i