The "ceaser"/alpha Roll.

[persephone]

The thing that really bothered me about this instructor was that she didn't seem to think that luring was even an option! The only ways she told the class to drop their dogs was the above (plus an even worse method of kneeling next to the dog, grabbing their front leg furthest away from you and pulling it towards to while pushing your dogs body away from you to get him/her to fall over! eek1.gif icon_smile_mad.gif ) and it made me cringe to watch these owners with their young dogs being jerked all over the place by owners who thought this trainer knew what she was on about. Poor dogs hadn't a clue what was going on and it really didn't look like 'learning' to me....

It does not sound a good place for inexperienced owners/dogs :p

Not having been to an obedience club for years... don't they have standards, and all teach the same methods?

Way back when... I thought they used to all teach the same things, in much the same manner.... while all being individual, of course.

[Odin-Genie]

It doesn't sound as shocking when it is described as 'guide', 'show' and 'place'.

No it doesn't. And sometimes it is not as easy as it sounds either as with some dogs there can be a bit of initial resistance until they understand what it is you're trying to achieve. But that still doesn't mean that the 'guide show place' method is about jerking the dog hard to the ground. Not directing this at you or anyone - merely making a general comment.

I worked with a dog a few days ago - he's about 2 yo and never been taught the drop. Lure .... not interested in it enough to bother. Resisted the GSP method on the first go, although did acquiesce in a reasonably short space of time. It was a bit mucky on the first go, but each repetition was better. After 3 reps the dog was doing it with no resistance and almost on command. Not all credit to the method by itself .... he's a great little dog, this guy. An Amstaff, btw .

:p :D My elkhound was the teacher's pet in his puppy class since he did everything perfectly (it's a different matter that when he was home he would try to be stubborn and just not do it!!) So food treats worked well for me.

My issue is with limited understanding of certain methods, ie the alpha roll. I am not a trainer, but I wouldn't let anybody do that to my dogs. That being said, it's not like I use only positive methods. The water spray can be quite handy

[JulesP]

I have alpha rolled my own dogs. Last time was when one of them was a pup and growled at me whilst eating a bone. I come down on that sort of behavior very hard. But yes there is no force, when they realise what they have done they roll themselves. No way would I teach it or suggest one of my class do it. If I think those sort of measures are needed I suggest a private lesson with a behaviorist.

If an instructor tried to make me do that in class I would walk out.