Prey Model Diets

[laffi]

OK I will start. This is my plan for a 20kg dog:

Sun: Turkey drumstick, raw egg

Mon: Salmon head

Tue: 3 chicken wings + chicken or lamb hearts

Wed: Roo tail, raw egg

Th: 3 chicken wings + chicken liver or lamb kidney

Fri: Roo tail

Sat: 8-10 chicken necks (or chicken mince, or beef mince) + chicken or lamb hearts

Edited February 12, 2009 by laffi

[ness]

How would training treats factor into that weekly menu laffi???

[leopuppy04]

I don't have specific days but I've been taught by the best and constantly improving mine

They get a variety of

Salmon heads (may not be repeated... they didn't like it fresh!)

Drumsticks/ Maryland

Lamb necks (big and meaty)

Roo Tails

Once a week they will get either brisket bones, chicken carcass or something a bit more boney with less meat

Once a week they will also get hearts/liver/kidneys

Mince mix - chicken mince (whole carcass minced) with spinach, parsely, pumpkin, egg, yoghurt and a teeny bit of VAN

They still get about 30% dry/ processed food though, used for easy meals, stuffing treat balls and such and for training.

Our training treats are usually processed foods though - devon, cheese, raw meat, kibble, hot dog, chicken chunkers / 4 legs, chicken and sometimes sausage

I have a question though - the place I get the roo tails from won't cut them for me and they are HUGE - I'm talking really really meaty and really long... definitely the full tail! Way too much for one dog. So - how would I cut it? At the moment I'm using a carving knife, but it's a lot of banging and I don't have very good 'aim' so I tend not to hit the same spot twice.... :rolleyes: Needless to say - my parents arent' happy about it as it blunts their knives

[ness]

I don't have a specific day thing either but they get a mix of:

Beef soup bones (for the fatty girl so she has something that takes a while to eat but not very meaty)

Lamb forequarter bits

Turkey wings

Turkey drumsticks

Chicken necks

Lamb off cuts

Chicken frames

Lamb shanks (special treat as I picked some up cheap on the weekend)

Tuna

Sardines tinned

Mince when I have mince in.

Kenzie also gets more dry food thrown in as she takes forever to eat the raw.

[laffi]

How would training treats factor into that weekly menu laffi???

Well with Midge I mostly use toys in training so she just gets raw.

With Laffi I do use treats about three times a week (so it would be less than 5-10% of her diet). At home I use Artemis Maximal Dog, in the club I use the mix of Artemis and some diced lean sausage, for trials I use Chicken Chunkers or 4 Legs.

[hopenfox]

I aim as close as I can for 10% bone, 80% meat, 5% liver & 5% other organs.

An average week for Fox, who's allergic to chicken (19kgs) is;

Monday: Salmon head (frozen), 1 lamb kidney

Tuesday: 1/2 an ox tongue

Wednesday: 2 lamb hearts

Thursday: whole lamb neck, 1 egg

Friday: boneless lamb chunk/s

Saturday: 1/2 an ox tongue

Sunday: turkey drumstick, chunk of liver

An average week for Hope (17kgs & with a throat condition that doesn't allow whole bones) - she eats 'Big Food Fed Less Often', since she's a greedy eater who loves to eat, but gains weight easily;

Monday: whole ox heart, three tsps of chicken frame mince

Tuesday: 3 tsps of chicken frame mince

Wednesday: 3 tsps of chicken frame mince, chunk of liver

Thursday: pork hock (on the bone, but she doesn't eat the bone)

Friday: 3 spoons of chicken frame mince, 1 egg

Saturday: 1/2 an ox tongue

Sunday: 3 tsps of chicken frame mince

I also feed when I can get it; whole rabbits (with or without fur), pork shoulder roasts, turkey parts, lamb shanks, beef boneless chunks, kangaroo parts and boneless chunks, goat parts, lamb brains and whole raw fish like sardines, mackerel and whiting.

For 'time using' treats I feed Kongs stuffed with raw meat or mince and frozen.

For training treats I use chopped up raw heart, or cooked meat cut very small.

[cazxxz]

An average week for Hope (17kgs & with a throat condition that doesn't allow whole bones) - she eats 'Big Food Fed Less Often', since she's a greedy eater who loves to eat, but gains weight easily;

Monday: whole ox heart, three tsps of chicken frame mince

Tuesday: 3 tsps of chicken frame mince

Wednesday: 3 tsps of chicken frame mince, chunk of liver

Thursday: pork hock (on the bone, but she doesn't eat the bone)

Friday: 3 spoons of chicken frame mince, 1 egg

Saturday: 1/2 an ox tongue

Sunday: 3 tsps of chicken frame mince

Three teaspoons of chicken frame mince? Oh man. My dog's attitude towards food sounds like Hope's, but he's 30 kg. I will be showing my mother Hope's diet so that she stops thinking I'm starving Jake!

(Please don't think I'm being critical - it sounds to me like you are in control and doing what's best for your dog's health, which is what I am aiming for too!)

[Red Fox]

Can someone please explain to me the differences between Prey and Barf? Is it just the vegies and supplements that make Barf different or is there more to it? I am thinking that Barf would have a much higher bone content than prey too

(sorry if I sound silly, but I'm still learning and trying to work out the best way to feed raw )

[laffi]

Can someone please explain to me the differences between Prey and Barf? Is it just the vegies and supplements that make Barf different or is there more to it? I am thinking that Barf would have a much higher bone content than prey too

(sorry if I sound silly, but I'm still learning and trying to work out the best way to feed raw )

BARF is based on raw meaty bones, offal, fruits and veggies, supplements and food scraps

Prey model is based on feeding your dog a whole animal (so ideally you would just feed whole chicken or rabbit, but it's pretty hard so you try to mimic it by combining different parts together).

[Tiggy]

I have a question though - the place I get the roo tails from won't cut them for me and they are HUGE - I'm talking really really meaty and really long... definitely the full tail! Way too much for one dog. So - how would I cut it? At the moment I'm using a carving knife, but it's a lot of banging and I don't have very good 'aim' so I tend not to hit the same spot twice.... Needless to say - my parents arent' happy about it as it blunts their knives

Do they come frozen? Easiest to saw them into pieces while still frozen.

[Nekhbet]

if you follow prey model diets you are meant to be feeding raw whole animals

here all I see is diets based on offcuts of processed meats which is NOT a complete diet for your dogs I dont see how a dog can be healthy on a few hearts and carcasses alone.

Also some amino acids necessary for life are not found in animal sources, as are some vitamins and minerals. If you know the content of the meat you feed, fine, but you are not guarenteeing quantities or existance of soem valuable elements in a diet. Dogs are scavengers, wouldnt it be better to feed them as such? Yes high quantities of animal fats will give a shiny coat but what about the inside?

[Dackel]

Hi,

5-10% organs (1/2 of this amount is liver)

10-15% edible bones

80-85% muscle meat.

Petra

[Dackel]

Hi again,

I also feed green tripe.

[Tiggy]

I feed the same as Dackel .

[Rebanne]

if you follow prey model diets you are meant to be feeding raw whole animals

here all I see is diets based on offcuts of processed meats which is NOT a complete diet for your dogs I dont see how a dog can be healthy on a few hearts and carcasses alone.

that was my understanding also plus you didn't have to feed them everyday. Mince certainly has no part in a prey diet. I was on a prey diet list 4/5 years ago and dared to suggest stuffing a chicken carcass with mince, boy was I attacked I can laugh about it now but I didn't then.

[hopenfox]

if you follow prey model diets you are meant to be feeding raw whole animals

here all I see is diets based on offcuts of processed meats which is NOT a complete diet for your dogs I dont see how a dog can be healthy on a few hearts and carcasses alone.

Also some amino acids necessary for life are not found in animal sources, as are some vitamins and minerals. If you know the content of the meat you feed, fine, but you are not guarenteeing quantities or existance of soem valuable elements in a diet. Dogs are scavengers, wouldnt it be better to feed them as such? Yes high quantities of animal fats will give a shiny coat but what about the inside?

Hi Nekhbet,

It's called Prey Model...it's modelled on Whole Prey. If we were feeding whole prey, the diet would be called 'Whole Prey', and though this would be everyone's ideal, it's often too difficult to do nowadays as whole animals are hard to find. Our goal with Prey Model is to provide as many parts from as many animals as we can, with the goal of providing everything they need over time, rather than every day.

And since dogs are wolves, we try to base it on what they would eat - whole deer, which is the ideal diet of a wolf. If it could live on solely deer, it would. A deer is made up of approximately 10% edible bone, 80% meat (which includes fat, tendons, skin, hair, etc) and 10% organs. Since the wolf shakes out the stomach contents and never eats it, veggies aren't included. Not only that, it has been scientifically proved that wolves and dogs have identical teeth and digestive systems, and so both are incapable of digesting or absorbing vegetable matter anyway. Their digestive system is too short, and their teeth are built for ripping and tearing - there are no flat molars for crushing plant matter small enough for digestion, so it goes right through.

Our goal is to feed a dog what it is biologically meant to eat, not what it would eat if it went scavenging. Just because a dog will eat inappropriate food, doesn't mean it should.

hopenfox

[laffi]

Hi,

5-10% organs (1/2 of this amount is liver)

10-15% edible bones

80-85% muscle meat.

Petra

I feed the same as Dackel .

Dackel and Tiggy, would you mind posting what you actually feed (which edible bones, what muscle meat, what organs, what are the proportions etc)?

I am asking as it's sometimes hard to estimate the meat to bone ratio. I try to feed very very meaty bones as the main part of the diet but it's so hard to estimate how much meat to bone there is on a wing or a drumstick. Thanks!

[laffi]

Hi Nekhbet,

It's called Prey Model...it's modelled on Whole Prey. If we were feeding whole prey, the diet would be called 'Whole Prey', and though this would be everyone's ideal, it's often too difficult to do nowadays as whole animals are hard to find. Our goal with Prey Model is to provide as many parts from as many animals as we can, with the goal of providing everything they need over time, rather than every day.

And since dogs are wolves, we try to base it on what they would eat - whole deer, which is the ideal diet of a wolf. If it could live on solely deer, it would. A deer is made up of approximately 10% edible bone, 80% meat (which includes fat, tendons, skin, hair, etc) and 10% organs. Since the wolf shakes out the stomach contents and never eats it, veggies aren't included. Not only that, it has been scientifically proved that wolves and dogs have identical teeth and digestive systems, and so both are incapable of digesting or absorbing vegetable matter anyway. Their digestive system is too short, and their teeth are built for ripping and tearing - there are no flat molars for crushing plant matter small enough for digestion, so it goes right through.

Our goal is to feed a dog what it is biologically meant to eat, not what it would eat if it went scavenging. Just because a dog will eat inappropriate food, doesn't mean it should.

hopenfox

[Nekhbet]

And since dogs are wolves, we try to base it on what they would eat - whole deer, which is the ideal diet of a wolf. If it could live on solely deer, it would. A deer is made up of approximately 10% edible bone, 80% meat (which includes fat, tendons, skin, hair, etc) and 10% organs.

And the average age of a wolf is 8 years, thats what gets me. As I said I'm just a little worried about the difference between the theory of the whole thing, which I see where people are coming from, and the whole practice using commercially prepared meat. That and we as humans have changed the dog quite a lot since the wolf as some dog breeds are showing allergies to meats - which you would think is fundamental to the health of the animal? Yes they might have similar teeth and digestive systems but the physiology has somewhat changed with linebreeding.

[laffi]

And since dogs are wolves, we try to base it on what they would eat - whole deer, which is the ideal diet of a wolf. If it could live on solely deer, it would. A deer is made up of approximately 10% edible bone, 80% meat (which includes fat, tendons, skin, hair, etc) and 10% organs.

And the average age of a wolf is 8 years, thats what gets me. As I said I'm just a little worried about the difference between the theory of the whole thing, which I see where people are coming from, and the whole practice using commercially prepared meat. That and we as humans have changed the dog quite a lot since the wolf as some dog breeds are showing allergies to meats - which you would think is fundamental to the health of the animal? Yes they might have similar teeth and digestive systems but the physiology has somewhat changed with linebreeding.

Can you please tell us how the digestive tracks of dogs changed with linebreeding? I mean I would like to know specifically what changed not just some vague statement about evolution.

Allergies are a different problem all together and most of them stem from using commercial foods .