Natsu chan Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 This is possibly a silly question but have you tried getting all excited and going silly when he gets things right? I had a dog like yours not lazy at all, but very sensitive, he fell to pieces when I got nervous too and I'm very nervy so it was definitely interesting. He wasn't food or toy motivated either but if I was happy he was happy. He'd work really well for a lot of cuddles and excited praise, but food ha he wasn't really interested it was almost as if he accepted it out of manners not because he wanted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 I probably should get more silly and excited when he does a good job Maybe I've just been spoiled by having the Kelpies - really they would rather food or a toy than a pat but Diesel does enjoy a good pat. May just stick to Kelpies from now on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 I tried sausages today - he worked the same as when I use cheese. Worse, actually, as he stopped to sniff the sausage for a few seconds before he ate it I also did some send to a treat bag. Once again I got about twice as much enthusiasm from Zoe who is 4 years older than Diesel Hmmm, maybe I should just cut my losses on this one and enjoy him as the gentle social sooky boy he is rather than keep trying to make him a competition dog which it seems he is not really keen on. And try to push my OH into letting me get another Kelpie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 KAvik - if he isnt' picking up the food with gutso - I would go back a zillion steps to get that drive up Try this week hand feeding him - click and feed x 5 and then he gets his dinner. By the end of the week just ask for a behaviour or two x 5 each time clicking and feeding, before he gets his dinner... Maybe even try the 2 food game then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 KAvik - if he isnt' picking up the food with gutso - I would go back a zillion steps to get that drive up Try this week hand feeding him - click and feed x 5 and then he gets his dinner. By the end of the week just ask for a behaviour or two x 5 each time clicking and feeding, before he gets his dinner... Maybe even try the 2 food game then I totally agree! as a matter of fact I would hand feed him 100% of the time from now on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Just watch you don't create the problem I am having with my picky girl. At breakfast the other morning the only way I could get her to eat the food is if we trained for it and I used it as a reward . I had the whole bowl down on the ground in front of her and she would only eat a bit if I asked her for a behavior and then gave the bridge word . Didn't change the food I was using at all but the minute I was offering to her after asking for a behavior it went down pretty quick smart until I finished training and then she wasn't interested in the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Maybe he just has little drive? Not sure really that anything is going to improve it. Have tried just about every type of treat I can think of that won't totally gross me out. He actually works the best for cheese. Have tried feeding him less - all this does is make him lose weight, does not make him any keener to work for food. I'm sure some people love working with this type of dog as he really is easy going but I find it so frustrating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Just watch you don't create the problem I am having with my picky girl. At breakfast the other morning the only way I could get her to eat the food is if we trained for it and I used it as a reward . I had the whole bowl down on the ground in front of her and she would only eat a bit if I asked her for a behavior and then gave the bridge word . Didn't change the food I was using at all but the minute I was offering to her after asking for a behavior it went down pretty quick smart until I finished training and then she wasn't interested in the rest. I would say Kavik is pretty far away from having this problem . My girls are like yours Ness but it's because they don't get any food without training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Maybe he just has little drive? Not sure really that anything is going to improve it. Have tried just about every type of treat I can think of that won't totally gross me out. He actually works the best for cheese. Have tried feeding him less - all this does is make him lose weight, does not make him any keener to work for food. I'm sure some people love working with this type of dog as he really is easy going but I find it so frustrating! How old is he? Does he have moments during the day when he is really focused or excited about something (other dogs, toys, running, sniffing....). If he has these moments it means there is hope. If he just is blah (sort of 2/10 excitement level) all day long, then I would say it's going to be hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Actually not sure Kavik is that far away. Kenzie hasn't much food drive either and will only eat one meal out of every 2-3. Not feeding her doesn't make her any hungrier either. I am sure if you released yours to eat the food though Laffi they would. Kenzie just walks away from it and isn't interested in eating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Actually not sure Kavik is that far away. Kenzie hasn't much food drive either and will only eat one meal out of every 2-3. Not feeding her doesn't make her any hungrier either. I am sure if you released yours to eat the food though Laffi they would. Kenzie just walks away from it and isn't interested in eating. Hmm not sure if I can compare crazy handler oriented Kenzie to super laid back Diesel. They seem to be VERY different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 He is 5 now. He has moments of being excited, but these are getting less and less. If I can't get him working well and being excited in a low distraction environment, there is no way he is going to work at all in a trial I'm curious as to whether anyone has opinions on cortisone and motivation/drive? Because of his itchy skin Diesel goes on and off cortisone. Of course when he is on cortisone he is keen for his food and works great but once that wears off he is lazy again. Maybe it is in these periods that he is on cortisone that I think there is hope for him Can cortisone effect things like that permanently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Cortisone is known to stimulate appetite but its a short lived drug in the system. Don't think it can have a permanent effect. I was only sugggesting that maybe working for each bit of food with a dog who isn't food driven isn't the solution the problem. Probably not explained very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 How often is Kenzie fed Ness?! Is the food down for long? When I've seen your training vids she seems to work for food - It wouldn't bother me if my dog wouldn't always eat the food offered. A friend of mine has an Aussie who turns himself inside and out for food in training, but if you give him a bone he can take it or leave it Means that the motivation for that particular dog is not the food but the food AND the trainer.... different issue Kavik - can you pin point when he is super excited?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 He is more excited morning and evening, and when we go to new places (visiting parents, going to training etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 You know I don't do obed. but I do do focus & motivation ... Here is a left field suggestion. Is there any way you can convince Ben to do something with him one afternoon so that you can watch & analyse what happens? You often say that he is very attached to Ben. I just wonder what would happen if Ben tried to work him. It may just indicate or rule out that the issues are having are between you & Diesel rather than just about Diesel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Have PMd you LP so as to not to dominate Kaviks thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Vickie, that is a very good idea! Now to convince Ben to actually do it, may be rather difficult though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 He is more excited morning and evening, and when we go to new places (visiting parents, going to training etc). I would use this as the best time to do training then .... if he is excited when you first get home, be prepared to do training as soon as you get in the door. If it's when you go training or a new place - try and find new parks to drive to, then train there... I found I got the best success from my dogs if I didn't see them, got changed, packed the car, chucked the dogs in and drove to the park.... they were *bursting* from the excitement of not having seen me all day and OMG we get to train too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Hadn't really thought about it but I do most of Zig's training either first thing in the morning when he is bouncing out of his skin with delight OR in the evening when he is turning himself inside out in anticipation of dinner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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