jerojath Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 tlc - in relation to points at a dog show (briefly!) A dog must achieve 100 points to become a champion and 25 or more must be after the age of 12 months. When a dog is awarded a 'challenge' ie; best Dog of breed or best Bitch of breed, they are awarded 6 points plus 1 point for every dog they have beaten to get there (except baby puppies). The Challenge Dog & the Challenge Bitch then compete for Best of Breed and the winner also gets points for beating the dogs of the opposite sex by winning best of breed. If a dog/bitch is the only entry at a show, then 6 points is the maximum they can win, however it is not a guarantee. A judge must only award challenge points if the entry is of exceptional quality and must sign a document stating: "I am clearly of the opinion that this exhibit is of such outstanding quality as to be worthy to qualify for the title Australian Champion". This document is called a Challenge Certificate (or CC) and is the reason we go to dog shows - ribbons, sashes and prizes don't interest me, we are there for the CC. If a judge does not believe an exhibit is up to standard, then the CC is 'withheld' and NO points are awarded. This does not happen VERY often, because most times there is at least one entry worthy of being awarded the CC, but I have still seen this happen MANY times and it is quite embarrassing for the exhibitor, I'm sure! If a dog is refused a CC from a number of judges at various shows then you may as well give up and keep it as a pet because it will never amount to anything in the show ring. So, you can see it takes a long time and a lot of money to make a dog a champion. Later I'll explain what is involved to make a dog a Grand Champion (Gr CH)! Hope this helps you a little! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 *slinks in* Just wanted to mention that me, my OH and our pooches will be travelling down the SE coast on the Friday of the October long weekend. We'll probably be stopping at Warrnambool for lunch and would love to meet up with any DOLers who wanted to meet up with me and my dogs. Will be able to give more details when we've planned more. Hi Ravyk, We would love to meet you guys and your pooches, definatley let us know dates times etc. How are your doggies off lead, we have a massive big park that would be ideal if we all have a meet up together, the dogs will have plenty of room to run. Looking forward to meeting you!! The weather should be a bit nicer then too, fingers crossed. :D JJ, there certainly is a lot to showing, you are very knowledgable, your mind must be like a sponge. it would be so disapointing to start to show and then have it that your dog is not show quality, and from what you said it does happen. I guess if you have been in showing a long time then you would know if your dogs going to cut it, starting out would be tough though. quick question for you, is there many registered breeders that dont show thier dogs? is part of the point of showing to get a championship so that when you sell the pups they are from championship lines? Is the asking price for puppies from a champion usually more expensive than a reg pup from a dog that has never been shown. The ring ins in the pictures are my friends from koroit. Trying to get her to come with us all one day, she is sticking to Kilarney these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerojath Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 *slinks in* Just wanted to mention that me, my OH and our pooches will be travelling down the SE coast on the Friday of the October long weekend. We'll probably be stopping at Warrnambool for lunch and would love to meet up with any DOLers who wanted to meet up with me and my dogs. Will be able to give more details when we've planned more. Hi Ravyk, We would love to meet you guys and your pooches, definatley let us know dates times etc. How are your doggies off lead, we have a massive big park that would be ideal if we all have a meet up together, the dogs will have plenty of room to run. Looking forward to meeting you!! The weather should be a bit nicer then too, fingers crossed. :D JJ, there certainly is a lot to showing, you are very knowledgable, your mind must be like a sponge. it would be so disapointing to start to show and then have it that your dog is not show quality, and from what you said it does happen. I guess if you have been in showing a long time then you would know if your dogs going to cut it, starting out would be tough though. quick question for you, is there many registered breeders that dont show thier dogs? is part of the point of showing to get a championship so that when you sell the pups they are from championship lines? Is the asking price for puppies from a champion usually more expensive than a reg pup from a dog that has never been shown. The ring ins in the pictures are my friends from koroit. Trying to get her to come with us all one day, she is sticking to Kilarney these days. Yep. Only a reliatively small number of dogs bred are true show quality. An experienced breeder can pick these in a litter from 6-8 weeks but there is never a guarantee it will turn out as expected I don't believe a breeder should ask more money for a pup of champion parentage although others do. I believe what you are paying for is a dog from health-tested parents, bred with health & temperament as main concern, well socialised by breeder, life-time breeder support, health guarantee, a dog 'typical' of its breed. Starting out can be tough. The trick is to have developed a long relationship with the breeder of your choice and develop friendships or 'mentors' who can guide you through the ups & downs of the show world. There are lots of breeders who don't show their dogs. I personally don't have a problem with this and it wouldn't stop me buying a dog from them. Breeders who successfully show their dogs I guess *prove* that they are producing quality dogs. I would rather visit their dogs and decide that for myself! For example, the stud dog I used for Tarni was not a show dog. He was someones 'pet'. He carries lines I like and when I heard of his existance I went for a look. He was one of the most beautiful vizslas I have ever seen and excelled in all the areas I needed a stud dog to. I spent the day with him and found his temperament was perfect and his hip & elbow scores were very good. So I used him! That litter I produced was from non-champion parents but that doesn't make them lesser quality. I see it much more important to do lots of research and forward planning to achieve what one wants than chosing dogs because/partly because they have a championship title. Quality produces quality. Titles do not! I feel there is to much reliance on 'titles'. In many breeds there are times when everyone uses the latest Grand Champion and the breed ends up with hundreds & hundreds of young stock all sired by the same dog! Don't see how this helps a breed. I choose stud dogs that excell where my bitch lacks whether or not he is a champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Well that all makes a lot of sense, you are typically breeding for the betterment of the breed in looking at each parent dog and choosing two dogs to have pups that will possess the best form both parents. Regardless of show results from any dog, As long as it is tempramentally sound and all the health tests are up to par and the dogs conformation is right then it should be a suitable dog to breed from!! It is all very interesting!! Some of you may remember a while back I mentioned about dog days they have in the uk, I commented on wishing we had more stuff like that here. One of my forum friends from another forum went to one of these dog days and her dog Gypsy is in this video of the day. It looked great making me wish all the more that we have days like that here. I know there is days like that occasionally in Melb and Sydney, I guess they have the people. Gypsy is the doggy at about 2 mins 22 seconds jumping on her back legs. It looked like a great day with all the doggys being well behaved and having a great time!! Some nice looking pooches in the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley James Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 *slinks in* Just wanted to mention that me, my OH and our pooches will be travelling down the SE coast on the Friday of the October long weekend. We'll probably be stopping at Warrnambool for lunch and would love to meet up with any DOLers who wanted to meet up with me and my dogs. Will be able to give more details when we've planned more. YAY more Dolers to meet I am sure that quite a few of us "Warrnie" people will be happy to have a meet and greet for us and the doggies. When you have some more details let us know and we can start planning Cheers Janet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 We had a visitor today. heres a few pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerojath Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 Awwwwwwwww! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim & Tanya Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Was that pickles?? If so I love pickles.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavalblaze Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Jerojath that was a very good explaination relating to showing and breeding. As a newcomer myself its a real learning curve from long term pet owner to getting involved in breeding and showing, which is why in the past months i seeked a experienced mentor to guide me on the way. I've made some mistakes initially which was so emotionally draining not to meantion financially a huge outlay with nothing to show. By that purchasing 2 puppies that had great pedigrees but as they grew it was clear that they didn't meet the correct standard. Sometimes its not easy picking the right puppy at 8 weeks of age. All the other litter mates were successful in the ring but i just was unfortunate to be sold one that was hormonally a train wreck and had to be desex and the other just grew beond anyones expectations regardless to the fact both parents were small dogs. Both were desex and rehomed into wonderful family homes as pets while they were under 12 months. It certainly hasn't been easy to rehome such wonderful puppies but breeding is about improving the breed and if you are going to get involved you need to do it correctly. tlc love the snap shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Hi Tanya, yes it was pickles Cooper had a great play with him today, he is always very good with puppys but not a big player but he had a great time with him today, he is a great little dog and who ever gets him once he has finished his training will be a very lucky person indeed!! Geez, Cavalblaze sounds like you have had a really rough trot, hope that the future see you having more luck than you have had in the past. Is the doggy in your signature one of yours?? She is very cute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerojath Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) Cavalblaze - Yep, I know what you mean. I started off on the wrong foot and it was MANY years before I had stock I was happy to breed from. Finally having found a Male suitable to use as a stud, he died from 1080 before I ever had the chance. Breeding has more heart-ache than joy at times! I'm happy to help you in any way. I don't know it 'all' but may be of assistance to you. I have some wonderful people to refer to should you have a question that's beyond my knowledge. I am no expert on the CKCS but at the end of the day canine genetics are the same regardless of the breed, but have always been an admirer of the breed. Most importantly is having great awareness of what is behind your dogs, in particular relating to health. After all, there's no point breeding the country's most beautiful Cav and winning every show if all his progeny are dead within two years or go blind or deaf or display epilepsy symptoms etc etc etc. Only countless hours research over many years can offer such knowledge. Secondly, is knowing exactly what you 'like'. Type can vary greatly within a breed and not knowing what you want will make it impossible to EVER get what you like. What I 'like' in my breed is not what is considered 'mainstream' I guess, and it is very hard to not breed what others would want you to breed. Of course I aim to breed to the standard, but my 'ideal' for the breed is not what is *normally* seen within winning circles. This just makes me more determined and the victories that little bit more sweet! Such differences would not be noticeable to most people, but those knowlegable would see them as chalk & cheese! And can I say, many of our most highly awarded Cavs do NOT fit the breed standard in some important areas (In MY oppinion!). Do you want to breed winners or quality dogs bred to the standard? If you are lucky and work hard enough, you may be able to achieve both! Edited August 31, 2009 by jerojath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Geez all this breeding and showing sounds like hard work to me. My hat goes off to dog breeders as you said JJ sometimes more heart ache than joy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim & Tanya Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Geez all this breeding and showing sounds like hard work to me. My hat goes off to dog breeders as you said JJ sometimes more heart ache than joy!! I agree TLC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavalblaze Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Hi Tanya, yes it was pickles Cooper had a great play with him today, he is always very good with puppys but not a big player but he had a great time with him today, he is a great little dog and who ever gets him once he has finished his training will be a very lucky person indeed!!Geez, Cavalblaze sounds like you have had a really rough trot, hope that the future see you having more luck than you have had in the past. Is the doggy in your signature one of yours?? She is very cute! Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate your input and sincerity. I sure has been a rough few years and I might take you up on that offer of advice frm time to time jerojath. I've got books and I'm in the club and in the cav thread on DOL. My mentor is some distance away so our commuication is limited to long distance phone calls and emails along with the occasional get together were possible. Yep tlc the cavalier in the signature is Bailey, RIP aged 5 years Leukemia took him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Oh thats so sad, he looked like a beautiful boy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavalblaze Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Oh thats so sad, he looked like a beautiful boy!! Thanks he was beautiful, personality, temperment and looks. Here are my girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim & Tanya Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Oh thats so sad, he looked like a beautiful boy!! Thanks he was beautiful, personality, temperment and looks. Here are my girls. They're cute as... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerojath Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 Oh thats so sad, he looked like a beautiful boy!! Thanks he was beautiful, personality, temperment and looks. Here are my girls. Cavalblaze the Blenheim looks lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Oh thats so sad, he looked like a beautiful boy!! Thanks he was beautiful, personality, temperment and looks. Here are my girls. Georgous!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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